Prototypical train passing siding at stations - part 1: Simple station

Actually I need your help to add more realism to my train operation.
I run on my narrow gauge layout one day US, next day UK, and the day after German railway operation. Before I invest too much in removable signaling I would like to know how train operations are being managed on light railways in the UK and in the US which run on a "shoestring budget", so with just a minimum effort & investment.
Part 1 : Simple Station with siding
I'm interested in the simple maneuver "train passing siding at stations". I hope I can visualize what I mean, and I start with a typical German example. For all rivet counters: I simplify many things on purpose since they are not relevant for garden railways.
The operation mode "Zugleitbetrieb" often takes place on routes with little train traffic. There are usually no additional dispatchers at every station. One dedicated train dispatcher controls the entire route and gives to the engine drivers instructions to which station they are allowed to run. Just 3 different types of signals are required:
NE5 // SO8 Haltetafel: Stop sign - the top of the train has to stop here

Ra10 Rangierhalttafel: Shunting limit - it's not allowed to shunt beyond this point
NE1 Trapeztafel: Identification of the point at which certain trains have to stop in "Zugleitbetrieb".


When trains have to "passing siding" in a station, it is pre-defined which of the two trains is allowed to run first into the Station, usually with a timetable entry for the engine driver .
(please don't mind the fictious station names). Train 21 from Ashford to Clapham runs into station Battenberg. All switches are in default position (straight).





After train 21 stopped precisely at the H-Tafel, the conductor turns the switches. Meanwhile, Train 10 from Clapham to Ashford arrives, has to stop at the Trapeztafel, and gives a short whistle (also known as wake-up call). When everything is fine, the conductor of train 21 allows his engine driver to give the so called “coming” whistle signal (ZP11 long-short-long).



Train 10 in front of the Trapeztafel acknowledges this with a short toot, rolls into the Station and stops at the H-Tafel.

Once the loading / unloading is done, train 10 leaves the Station. The conductor of train 21 turns all switches back into default position (straight), so train 21 can leave Battenberg Station.






Important: Passenger Trains usually run only into tracks with H-Tafel that indicates the proper Train position/clearance.
To have more flexibility, you find very often stop signs on both tracks in both directions.
Here we stop on the left track:


...and here on the right track (same Station "Zirkelschacht", Mansfeld Mining Railway):


The left picture gives an impression how close to the station a Trapeztafel can be installed. The same Trapeztafel on the right picture. Note the little lamp on top: This allows the Station master to give the "coming" signal to the waiting train, in case there's no engine in the station.


This Picture illustrates the minimum distance between last switch, the shunting limit (the half-moon sign next to the last coach) and the Signal - in this case not just a Trapeztafel.
So in G scale the safety distance between shunting limit and Signal is about a 1,5 x the length of a 4- axle Coach. Not much, but the speed is limited anyway...



After the German example I would appreciate if you could post your approach - so let me know how in the UK and in the US such a simple Train passing siding is managed an signalled!

moin,
was du hier als "crossing" bezeichnest, nennen die auf englisch ein "passing siding".
"crossing" sagen die fuer bahnuebergaenge.

others - please ignore this post.

ps: schoene bilder!

65 1057 said:

Actually I need your help to add more realism to my train operation.


...................After the German example I would appreciate if you could post your approach - so let me know how in the UK and in the US such a simple Train passing siding is managed an signalled!

Click to expand...

I'm sorry that I can't help with the actual question about UK (or US) practice - but I wanted to say a big thank-you for your very useful post, diagrams and pictures on how it is done in Germany!
I look forward to reading further posts on this thread about other aspects of real-life operation......

Mods - I think the first post here is so full of useful info that maybe it could be copied and "pinned" somewhere that it can always be easily found? Just a thought.....

Jon

65 1057 said:

Actually I need your help to add more realism to my train operation.
I run on my narrow gauge layout one day US, next day UK, and the day after German railway operation. Before I invest too much in removable signaling I would like to know how train operations are being managed on light railways in the UK and in the US which run on a "shoestring budget", so with just a minimum effort & investment.
Part 1 : Simple Station with siding
I'm interested in the simple maneuver "train passing siding at stations". I hope I can visualize what I mean, and I start with a typical German example. For all rivet counters: I simplify many things on purpose since they are not relevant for garden railways.
The operation mode "Zugleitbetrieb" often takes place on routes with little train traffic. There are usually no additional dispatchers at every station. One dedicated train dispatcher controls the entire route and gives to the engine drivers instructions to which station they are allowed to run. Just 3 different types of signals are required:
View attachment 241769 NE5 // SO8 Haltetafel: Stop sign - the top of the train has to stop here

View attachment 241768Ra10 Rangierhalttafel: Shunting limit - it's not allowed to shunt beyond this point
View attachment 241770NE1 Trapeztafel: Identification of the point at which certain trains have to stop in "Zugleitbetrieb".


When trains have to "passing siding" in a station, it is pre-defined which of the two trains is allowed to run first into the Station, usually with a timetable entry for the engine driver .
(please don't mind the fictious station names). Train 21 from Ashford to Clapham runs into station Battenberg. All switches are in default position (straight).


View attachment 241771


After train 21 stopped precisely at the H-Tafel, the conductor turns the switches. Meanwhile, Train 10 from Clapham to Ashford arrives, has to stop at the Trapeztafel, and gives a short whistle (also known as wake-up call). When everything is fine, the conductor of train 21 allows his engine driver to give the so called “coming” whistle signal (ZP11 long-short-long).

View attachment 241772

Train 10 in front of the Trapeztafel acknowledges this with a short toot, rolls into the Station and stops at the H-Tafel.
View attachment 241773
Once the loading / unloading is done, train 10 leaves the Station. The conductor of train 21 turns all switches back into default position (straight), so train 21 can leave Battenberg Station.



View attachment 241774


Important: Passenger Trains usually run only into tracks with H-Tafel that indicates the proper Train position/clearance.
To have more flexibility, you find very often stop signs on both tracks in both directions.
Here we stop on the left track:
View attachment 241775

...and here on the right track (same Station "Zirkelschacht", Mansfeld Mining Railway):
View attachment 241776

The left picture gives an impression how close to the station a Trapeztafel can be installed. The same Trapeztafel on the right picture. Note the little lamp on top: This allows the Station master to give the "coming" signal to the waiting train, in case there's no engine in the station.
View attachment 241777 View attachment 241779

This Picture illustrates the minimum distance between last switch, the shunting limit (the half-moon sign next to the last coach) and the Signal - in this case not just a Trapeztafel.
So in G scale the safety distance between shunting limit and Signal is about a 1,5 x the length of a 4- axle Coach. Not much, but the speed is limited anyway...

View attachment 241781

After the German example I would appreciate if you could post your approach - so let me know how in the UK and in the US such a simple Train passing siding is managed an signalled!

Click to expand...

Very, very useful - and expertly written.

Zerogee said:

Mods - I think the first post here is so full of useful info that maybe it could be copied and "pinned" somewhere that it can always be easily found? Just a thought.....

Jon

Click to expand...

Copy a link to the resources section - I have just done this one.

korm kormsen said:

moin,
was du hier als "crossing" bezeichnest, nennen die auf englisch ein "passing siding".
"crossing" sagen die fuer bahnuebergaenge.

others - please ignore this post.

ps: schoene bilder!

Click to expand...

This would be slightly better “railway” English:

When trains have to use the “passing loop” at a station, it is pre-defined which of the two trains is allowed to run first into the Station, usually with a timetable entry for the engine driver .

A very informative posting, thank you 651057.

Thank you all for the nice comments and the opportunity to improve my railway english - don't hesitate to correct my wording!
My intention is not just to run garden railways on a big loop through the garden and that's it. Waiting at a signal and giving acoustic signals adds just more fun. We all pay so much attention on painting, wheathering, detailing etc. So why not pay a little more attention on how we operate?

For English working which is quite different to German there are probably two types to be aware of. Light Railways with little or no signals and conventional heavy Rail with the Station Signalled to varying degrees of complexity.

To take your example and with UK Light Railway possibly having Staff and Ticket working on a Branch Line with your Battenburg being an intermediate Station. Let us say that Train 21 (Up Train) is returning from Ashford (a Terminal Station as the first Down Train 8 and Up Train 21 of the day) and will be following Train 10 (Down Train) back to Ashford after a run round possibly as a School Time Additional working.

Under Staff and Ticket working the Train Staff will have been used to get Train 8 the first Down one to Ashford and return Train 21 back to Battenburg. Note that as the Train Staff went with the Train 8 no others can be allowed between Battenburg and Ashford untill the Staff has returned safely with Up Train 21.

Now things get interesting as we have two trains to go Down to Ashford. Down Train 10 will go under a Ticket that authorises the Train to run to Ashford WITHOUT THE TOKEN. The driver must be shown the Token for the section of line and satisfy himself that it is the correct Token before he departs. Under either Time Separation or Station Master Confirmation (from Ashford by phone) once Train 21 has run round and is ready to depart as Down Train 12 the driver can be given the Token and depart. Again now, no other Down Trains can be run to Ashford. As indeed can no Down Trains be run from Clapham as the Token for that section will be at Battenburg having arrived with Train 10 Train 8 having worked from Clapham to Battenburg with a Ticket.

The next Up Trains could run as a Staff and Ticket setup with perhaps the second Shuttling back and from Ashford with the Token until such time as it can get back to Clapham with a second Train again under Staff and Ticket.

It has been known that in certain circumstances it is quite acceptable for a Token to be moved to the other end of the Section to which it refers to get trains moving where difficulties of working have been encountered. This was carried out by a Boy on a Bicycle or perhaps the SM on his Motor Bike or Car if he was lucky enough to own one.

This type of working may seam somewhat limiting which indeed it is, but served many small light Railways such as the Southwold in the early parts of the last Centuary perhaps also being used still in certain instances on preserved lines in the the UK.

The above type of working is pretty well how I run my German Railway as not having Phones in the Garden I feel the mix of Geman and UK Practice works well for me. It also allows freestyle non timetabled working where the Train Staff as it is known is used to allow Trains in the 5 single line sections between Stations on my line. Much recourse to men on bicycles is used in these scenarios.

As for full signalling type of operation on Single Line we get to Electronic Token or Tokenless Block working. This can be quite complex to get across without being iverly wordy. I feel unqualified to amplify this type of working in sufficient detail for a full understanding, perhaps someone here may be able to help.

As for your German superb description, I now fully understand the use if the H board and also the whistle codes to be used. I will in time be implementing these on my own line already having Trapeztafel (Two with lights) and Shunt Limit Signs in place. The other interesting thing to note in your pictures are the Red and White side swipe avoiding markers. I have implemented these on my line as well. They are so very useful to protect expensive models from being side swiped. These markers incidentally are pretty much unknown in the UK. The way I use these is that the first Train to arrive takes priority, each Station has a Signal at each end of the Station which must not be passed until cleared thus giving whatever Train arrives first the ability to cary out Shunting safely. Another mix of German and English practice I am afraid. But as they say Rule 1 applies. Which if you did not know it is "well it is my Railway".

Thank you for the very useful insights in the "Staff and Ticket" working sheme!
I'm impressed that you noticed the little markers. They are officially called "Ra12/So12 Grenzzeichen".


Theses markers helped me a lot in a special situation. Look at the position of the H board in the Brünkendorf Station - far behind the switch:


The standard sequence is that the first train into the Station comes from Lindenberg - in the above picture from the left side - and the downhill train from Mesendorf has to wait at the Trapeztafel. For the festival they changed the sequence and I had to drive carefully as second Train into the occupied Station with the exception to ignore the H board. The little marker helped me to stop precisely so that even the last coach fitted into the siding.

Never miss them as I always look for them after I saw an article in Garten Bahn. I have somewhere in one of my threads shown how I fitted the Grenzzeichen or as I called them "Fouling Point Markers" to my line.

What an excellent thread!!! I’ve wonderen myself what all the (German) signs mean and there you go! Very informative, Thanks for posting!!

dunnyrail said:

Never miss them as I always look for them after I saw an article in Garten Bahn. I have somewhere in one of my threads shown how I fitted the Grenzzeichen or as I called them "Fouling Point Markers" to my line.

Click to expand...

“Fouling point markers” are often a painted piece of wood attached to the sleeper (between the rails), or simpley the end of a sleeper being painted. I think I’ve seen “FP” written onto the paint in some places; not sure if “FP” signs exist in the same way as the “Grenzzeichen” , but would be equaly valid.

Henri said:

What an excellent thread!!! I’ve wonderen myself what all the (German) signs mean and there you go! Very informative, Thanks for posting!!

Click to expand...

Totally agree with you Henri. The amount of railway knowledge on this forum is amazing.

Eeyore.Boater said:

This would be slightly better “railway” English:

When trains have to use the “passing loop” at a station, it is pre-defined which of the two trains is allowed to run first into the Station, usually with a timetable entry for the engine driver .

A very informative posting, thank you 651057.

Click to expand...

Eeyore (for want of a real name...), did you mean to put a "sad" reaction on post no.1, which (I think) counts as a negative reaction for the poster?
If not, you know that you can click on "undo reaction" and change it?

Jon.

Zerogee said:

Eeyore (for want of a real name...), did you mean to put a "sad" reaction on post no.1, which (I think) counts as a negative reaction for the poster?
If not, you know that you can click on "undo reaction" and change it?

Jon.

Click to expand...

Thanks Jon, “Big Thumb syndrome” strikes again

We had yesterday a training on the Zugleitbetrieb in scale 1:1 and I could confirm some facts:

> Yes - there's just one single Dispatcher/controller (Zugleiter) who controls all Trains - in our example between Clapham and Ashford
> Yes - all local acitivies (turn switches etc.) have to be executed by the Train Crew. If you are allone on a motor car - you will be busy
> All activities have to be communicated via Train Radio (or moblie phone if necessary) so that the Dispatcher knows where you are,
when you arrived, when you left and so on.
> Yes - it requires absolute discipline from all People involved, especially from the Train Drivers. There's no technical "obstacle" that prevents failures.
Remember the accident on August 21, 1994: The Train downwards to Steinerne Renne was instructed to wait in the siding of Drängetal, but the driver did not stop...

This led at the end to a discussion on how to "upgrade" the technical safety at lowest cost. The HSB installed signals from Wernigerode to Brochen and from Nordhausen Nord to Ilfeld-Neanderkliniken. On top they installed a collision warning System.

This was necessary because Narrow Gauge Lines are not equipped with track magnets and mangets&computers on the engines itself ( PZB Punktförmige Zugbeeinflussung, also known as INDUSI). This was in the past only necessary on main lines, now also on tracks with low traffic.

To generate more safety you just install some remotely controlled 2.000 Hz magnets on critical points to divide the section into sub-sections.
Once the magnet ist activated, it works like a red Signal and you cannot pass this point. This magnet can be installed everywhere (e.g. at Trapeztafel or H Board).
It it not considered as Signal, it's just to give the Dispatcher a tool to actively control the Train movements.
In our example the sub-sections with magnets could look like this:




A little blue lamp indicates whether the track magnet is activated or not. As shown below it would not be possible to accidentally enter into the next sub-section.



For all who want to model PZB: Massoth developed the PZB on a infrared track sensor Basis.

In later days on Main Lines though on some branch lines as well we have AWS System, I think this link is a better way of explaining the system than I could do. However what is worth pointing out is that the system cand and will stop a train if certain corcumstances are not followed correctly.

Automatic Warning System - Wikipedia

These days the talk is all about the Digital Railway ETRMS etc and run eventually via the "Cloud".

Example of fouling point indicators at East Lancs Railway

Eeyore.Boater said:

Example of fouling point indicators at East Lancs Railway View attachment 242178

Click to expand...

I imagine that the ELR has had a few side swipes and decided to do something about it. Are they used universaly on the line, been a while since I visited.