A different kind of battery power

soothsayer

Registered
Country flag
I’m not trying to hijack this thread, but I discovered something interesting on my LGB Ballenberg rack locomotive today that is battery related.

I am running a shuttle back and forth from around the Christmas tree, up two inclines, and across my stone hearth. I’m using a standard 1 amp power transformer from a starter set. To get a nice scale speed, my rail voltage is around 13.5v. However, when the train hits the incline, it slows to a crawl and rail voltage drops down to between 8v-9v. I’m sure amperage is spiking (LGB recommends at least a 2 amp transformer for rack locos) so I’m not surprised. I also notice when the engine is descending the slopes that it runs significantly faster than it does on level ground. I just attributed that to gravity.

I thought I would try an experiment. I have a number of Lipo batteries for my scale RC boat collection. I picked a 4S (14.8v) 5200 mah pack since, at storage charge (44% capacity), it would give me 13.06v to the rails when the train was running. I hooked it up in place of the transformer and was a bit shocked at the difference in performance. The engine runs at almost the same speed the whole way around the circuit. Uphill, my voltage only drops from 13.08v to 12.89v. When it descends the hills, the speed remains constant and barely increases. Of course, I can’t vary the speed, but it is just shuttling back and forth and with the LGB reversing unit, it accelerates and decelerates nice and slow at each end. The amperage that this battery can put out FAR exceeds anything these motors draw. The crazy thing is, I hooked up the battery to the track with 44% charge. I ran for 35 minutes solid (with about a 10 second pause at each end) and came away with 40% capacity. On a full charge, I should be able to run continuously for hours! I’m sure it is much healthier on the locomotive motors having plenty of amperage available than barely getting by with just 1 amp from my transformer.
 
Interesting .................. so, possibly a controller that has a higher power rating.

I believe that's how they did garden railways years ago, with a car battery hooked up to the track ;)
 
that's how they did garden railways years ago, with a car battery hooked up to the track
before we had electricity in the village (in the early 1980ies) i had a car alternator driven as sidekick by the motor well-pump for loading two old car batteries(in parallel) between batteries and track i had a "loudness-regulator"(?) from an old radio. that worked satisfactory.
 
Interesting .................. so, possibly a controller that has a higher power rating.

I believe that's how they did garden railways years ago, with a car battery hooked up to the track ;)
I don’t know how much amperage is “enough” because I don’t have an ammeter to see what it is pulling. I do know these batteries can put out well over 100 amps under high load so there is no telling what the motor is actually drawing. I’m guessing between 2 and 5 amps. Lipos also have a high energy density so they can deliver power instantaneously. With that said, any battery would probably be an improvement over the 1 amp transformer.

I did dial the transformer down to a crawl and the engine would not scale the hill. I tried a 3S Lipo (11.1v), which gave me similar track voltage, and it made it up the incline with no issues. In essence, I had to run the train at non-scale speeds to have it make it around the circuit. Of course, I’m talking about climbing grades so the practical implications are debatable.
 
It will make no difference at all to the "health" of the motor, but not overloading the 1 amp controller is a definite benefit.
I guess I was figuring if you ran the trains “on the edge” of efficiency, they could generate excess heat as they struggle to climb the grade. Adding cars would only compound the issue. You would have to run more voltage to have it make the climb, but sacrifice scale speed on the flat sections to have it run continuously.
 
I guess I was figuring if you ran the trains “on the edge” of efficiency, they could generate excess heat

If the applied voltage drops, a DC permanent magnet motor will just run slower..... which is not directly related to heat. Motor heating is a complex thing and is mostly related to the physical "work" it is doing (that is, mechanical effort being expended).
 
The only worry with using a battery is if the loco stalled but was still pulling power that 100 amps could do quite a bit of damage.
 
The only worry with using a battery is if the loco stalled but was still pulling power that 100 amps could do quite a bit of damage.
If using a lithium battery for ANY application a fuse is essential, as close as is possible to the battery.
 
I don’t know how much amperage is “enough” because I don’t have an ammeter to see what it is pulling. I do know these batteries can put out well over 100 amps under high load so there is no telling what the motor is actually drawing. I’m guessing between 2 and 5 amps. Lipos also have a high energy density so they can deliver power instantaneously. With that said, any battery would probably be an improvement over the 1 amp transformer.

I did dial the transformer down to a crawl and the engine would not scale the hill. I tried a 3S Lipo (11.1v), which gave me similar track voltage, and it made it up the incline with no issues. In essence, I had to run the train at non-scale speeds to have it make it around the circuit. Of course, I’m talking about climbing grades so the practical implications are debatable.
I'm not sure what controllers are available nowadays. Many people manage with 5 amps, although I think there are 10 amp controllers on the market.

The other problem with putting high power through a shuttle unit is the instantantaneous on/off - not good for the drive train.
 
The other problem with putting high power through a shuttle unit is the instantantaneous on/off - not good for the drive train.
Agree I believe there are better quality ones that involve a slow down then stop, probably a bit tricky on a short line but slower speed gives more time to enjoy what is shuttling.
 
The shuttle electronics have overload protection, fortunately.
That does not protect the battery and input wiring to the shuttle.

ALWAYS, fit a fuse!

It is this wiring which, if there is a fault, will see the full power from your battery.

PhilP
 
I'm not sure what controllers are available nowadays. Many people manage with 5 amps, although I think there are 10 amp controllers on the market.

The other problem with putting high power through a shuttle unit is the instantantaneous on/off - not good for the drive train.

Didn't the original poster mention the latter version of the LGB shuttle unit ? It has the slow start-up and slow-down feature.
 
In my testing with converting Locos, I have found that most Buhler motors pull around 3-4A when loaded at (22V DCC track voltage).
 
In my testing with converting Locos, I have found that most Buhler motors pull around 3-4A when loaded at (22V DCC track voltage).

Something was wrong with your testing method then, A single Buhler motor is not thermally rated for consuming that much energy and would quickly self destruct.
 
I suppose the poster could be referring to stall current?

0.8 - 1.2Amps for a LGB loco running. - Lights and smoke, at the higher end..

If I found a motor drawing over an amp, I would suggest keeping an eye on the current, as it suggested (to me) that the motor was getting to the end of its life.

PhilP
 
To lower the output of any battery, just try installing a 5 amp diode between the battery and load. There are 2 basic types of diodes and one drops .3 volts and the other can drop .7 volts.
 
All I know is I plug in the 4S Lipo and it shuttles back and forth effortlessly for hours. Watching it ascend and descent with consistent speed beats the erratic performance of the 1 amp transformer.
 
Back
Top