Accucraft Countess disaster; smokebox paint gone, all front detail melted off...... :-(

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philbiddulph

Registered
I had a disaster today....

....running trains in the garden for the first time in months, and the first time I've steamed my shiny new Countess. Everthing was going so well, the first few runs were great, even gingerly going round the R1 sections.

However on steaming up for the 4th or so time late this afternoon, it suddenly became apparent she was very hot at the front, as the paint began to peel off the smokebox and the front detail parts began dropping off. It soon became clear with the sight of big blobs of what appears a lightweight metal(aluminum, or an alloy) that things at the front were melting.

I have religiously followed all the neccessary instructions in steaming her; GOW, leave the sb door open for 2 mins etc; so I am quite upset that so much damage has been caused to a very expensive loco.

Even if I have done something wrong(which I'm sure i haven't!) there is no way surely that parts should melt off, and paint peel, from a live steam loco that is surely designed to get just a little warm!?

any thoughts gratefully received on this.

Thanks

Phil
 
There are members with more live steam experiance than me but it sounds like you either had the gas turned up too high or the gas was burning in the smokebox rather than the burner tube.
 
philbiddulph said:
I had a disaster today....

....running trains in the garden for the first time in months, and the first time I've steamed my shiny new Countess. Everthing was going so well, the first few runs were great, even gingerly going round the R1 sections.

However on steaming up for the 4th or so time late this afternoon, it suddenly became apparent she was very hot at the front, as the paint began to peel off the smokebox and the front detail parts began dropping off. It soon became clear with the sight of big blobs of what appears a lightweight metal(aluminum, or an alloy) that things at the front were melting.

I have religiously followed all the neccessary instructions in steaming her; GOW, leave the sb door open for 2 mins etc; so I am quite upset that so much damage has been caused to a very expensive loco.

Even if I have done something wrong(which I'm sure i haven't!) there is no way surely that parts should melt off, and paint peel, from a live steam loco that is surely designed to get just a little warm!?

any thoughts gratefully received on this.

Thanks

Phil
Click to expand...
This was burning in the smokebox Phil unfortunately. In the instructions it will say to make sure that the gas 'pops' back into the burner tube after lighting ? usually done by turning the gas down til it does. I always recommend running a new locomotive with someone reasonably experienced and can guarantee that you will later spot this instantly.

The loco is certainly designed to get warm, but burning in the smoke box is like using a blowlamp and will certainly melt parts because it will continue to get hot. What you see there is high temp solder so it must have got pretty bl00dy hot. May I suggest that you contact Graham at Accucraft UK on 01694 723799 and tell him Tag suggested that you call and explain exactly what happened and I am sure that they will sort you out. Don't feel bad Phil ? I did this myself on a Merlin more than a quarter of a century ago and the smokebox was replaced ?there ? now you are making me give away one of my dirty little secrets:(
You will in future be able to spot this instantly by the sound of the burn and you will clear just by turning the gas down til it pops and burns steadily. Let me know how you get on.
 
A similar thing happened to one of our members at the CFR. He had just fitted a summerlands chuffer to his Countess and was testing the engine. He said "That's summerland's chuffer is really help it smoke well". Little did he know until the end of the run that the smoke had actually been caused by the back of the smokebox door melting and it basically welded the door shut! I won't quote his exact words but he wasn't very pleased.

After re heating the melted area he managed to open the door and clean the smokebox up. He then contacted Accucraft and they sent a replacement door which, as far as I can remember, had a broken catch. The next smokebox door was a lighter shade of black, he just re sprayed it to a better colour. The loco has worked faultlessly since.

I know he has problems getting the flame to pop back in the burner at times; he normally blows down the smokebox.

***I should add this had nothing to do with the summerlands chuffer. We believe, though can?t confirm, that it was to do with the flame not popping back into the burner.
 
I might add that on an odd occasion, I've had a little difficulty getting the flame to blow back to the burner on my Countess, sometimes prefering to extinguish before doing so. It just seems to require a little persiverence, and as Scott suggests, a tiny puff to move it. It is quite obvious when it is burning in the right place.
 
Get the liquid out of the burner by turning the gas on,not lighting it, for 30 seconds with the smokebox door open.It looks like vapour.Turn the gas off for 30 seconds.Then put a flame to the front of the smoke box,and turn the gas on slowly,not too high.Let it burn for a few seconds,it should pop back into the fire box.Close the smoke box when the flame settles,30 seconds usually,.As the boiler gets hotter turn the gas down because the gas expands.
 
The Countess likes to steam very well with the gas tank right next to the boiler. I watch the pressure gauge on mine closely as this lets me know when to stop and lower the gas pressure to the burner. Rarely do I have a problem with it not popping back on the burner. I have more of a problem keeping the burner from going too high during the run.
With over a 100 hours of running I am still very pleased with mine. ( First off the boat, first in hand and running ! )
Charles M
 
Exactly the same thing happened with my Countess after a couple of outings; the suppliers kindly repaired it under warranty. The diagnosis was too hot a flame, the result of an overly stiff gas control knob, which prevented fine adjustments. I have subsequently lightly oiled the knob and it is very free moving. This is essential as the difference between just enough gas and too much is about a quarter of a turn. Whilst I agree with the principle of waiting for the "pop" as the flame settles down in the boiler, I have to say that the pop is very quiet compared with, say, the Roundhouse boiler, and it is safer to leave the smokebox door open for a minute or two and do a visual on the state of the flame.

Graham H
 
Once the fire is lighted, listen to it. If it is roaring, turn the gas down till it makes only a tiny whisper, then run your loco for a few minutes. Heat from the boiler will warm the fuel tank and raise the pressure in the tank. Then it will be time to turn the gas down some more to get a nice long run.

Good luck.

Will
 
Thanks all for the answers.

I feel just a little better about this now; it's right that 'live steaming' obviously takes some experience but I do feel a little more detail in the Accy' instructions could have avoided this.

I do fear that its been on the mantelpiece for too long to be under guarantee, but I hope Accucraft may supply me with some paint and a coupling to exact the necessary repair/repaint myself.

Phil
 
philbiddulph said:
Thanks all for the answers.

I feel just a little better about this now; it's right that 'live steaming' obviously takes some experience but I do feel a little more detail in the Accy' instructions could have avoided this.

I do fear that its been on the mantelpiece for too long to be under guarantee, but I hope Accucraft may supply me with some paint and a coupling to exact the necessary repair/repaint myself.

Phil
Click to expand...

Accucraft UK will sort you out Phil. They don't work like the insurance companies who look for a way not to help. Just say what happened and ask for help and it will be forthcoming.
 
Phil, I think you have touched on a subject that needs a little airing, perhaps even a new thred. When I bought my first live steamer seven years ago I was waved a cheery goodby by the retailer and given the advise, "don't worry you'll get the hang of it quick enough". Luckily it was a Roundhouse product.

The next purchace was an Accucraft product. Again the retailer, my money safely in the bank, waved me a cheery goodbye with the same words. Oh woe, oh woe, a truely recalcitrent loco that nearly put me off the hobby. For 3 years these locos spent a lot of time on the shelf rather than on my track

In reality the problem was not the loco but a complete absence of customer service at the outset and lack of effective fault finding abilities on my behalf and on the part of the retailer too. I have even managed to "gunk up" a few locos as nobody, retailer or manufacturer, told me that I had been given too thick a grade of steam oil for use with some loco types with my original purchace.

If you have not done it already join the 16mm narrow gauge modellers society and get involved with your local area group. That is were I have picked up my knowledge and confidence over the last 4 years to run these wonderful beasties. They are a much broader church than their name implies.

I tend now to look for the best "deal" on price when buying as I get the impression that the dealers are really only intrested in taking the money. Suffice to say that the original retailer in question now gets very little of my money where new purchases are involved.

Max.
 
maxi-model said:
Phil, I think you have touched on a subject that needs a little airing, perhaps even a new thred. When I bought my first live steamer seven years ago I was waved a cheery goodby by the retailer and given the advise, "don't worry you'll get the hang of it quick enough". Luckily it was a Roundhouse product.

The next purchace was an Accucraft product. Again the retailer, my money safely in the bank, waved me a cheery goodbye with the same words. Oh woe, oh woe, a truely recalcitrent loco that nearly put me off the hobby. For 3 years these locos spent a lot of time on the shelf rather than on my track

In reality the problem was not the loco but a complete absence of customer service at the outset and lack of effective fault finding abilities on my behalf and on the part of the retailer too. I have even managed to "gunk up" a few locos as nobody, retailer or manufacturer, told me that I had been given too thick a grade of steam oil for use with some loco types with my original purchace.

If you have not done it already join the 16mm narrow gauge modellers society and get involved with your local area group. That is were I have picked up my knowledge and confidence over the last 4 years to run these wonderful beasties. They are a much broader church than their name implies.

I tend now to look for the best "deal" on price when buying as I get the impression that the dealers are really only intrested in taking the money. Suffice to say that the original retailer in question now gets very little of my money where new purchases are involved.

Max.
Click to expand...
It is a shame that you have had this experience. I would have gone straight to Accucraft (or the courts) with this if the retailer did not return my money. They are not all the same by any means ? our local one (Anything Narrow Gauge) is very good at backing up his sales both new and secondhand, Accucraft and Roundhouse) The Accucraft UK setup itself is very good these days - which is why I suggested to Phil that he goes there ? given the particular problem he has encountered.
I would agree that membership of an association with local members is an excellent idea. I first joined the 16mm Association nearly thirty years ago and have never regretted it ? there is always someone around to bounce ideas off. I have had many Roundhouse and Accucraft locomotives ? and would very quickly have been able to tell you whether your locomotive had a minor glitch which could be quickly sorted ? or a major fault which would mean REPLACEMENT OR MONEY BACK!! Just because our locomotives are live steam does not exempt them from the Sale of Goods Act. AccucraftUK have certainly always acted within the law and certainly, on many [font="helvetica; line-height: normal"]occasions, have gone way beyond that to sort out their customers. As you say however, SOME retailers it would seem, do not have the either the right attitude or knowledge of their responsibilities under the law.[/font]
 
I think this thread proves how there is no replacement for experience, except of course there is, you use the experience of others by making new friendships and asking questions, either through forums, associations, or talking to the dealer who supplied you.

Of course it is a fair point that until something happens a new user might not be aware that a question should have been asked in the first place! So if anyone wants to point out any specific things they feel are not well covered in instructions please do shout - the hobby is in a continuous process of evolution and improvement.

In the first instance anyone having a problem with any loco should report it to their dealer so work can be arranged under the warranty. You should expect your dealer to arrange a resolution to your satisfaction, normally with the involvement of the manufacturer. In the unlikely event of your dealer not making satisfactory arrangements then I'm sure as Tag suggests contact with the manufacturer would soon resolve things.

And for any new users reading this theread here is my list of simple but vital things to pay attention, do this and you will never injure your loco.

1. Always make sure there is water in the boiler when you have a fire lit.

2. Always ensure the flame has 'popped back' into the fire tube, as discussed in this thread.

3. Always use the correct grade of steam oil and once in steam don't leave you loco standing for more than 2 minutes with the fire lit and not going anywhere.

Happy steamings,

John
 
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