Bachmann Heisler - slow running / pulsing

[Rob s]

Hi Folks

I recently bought a second hand Heisler, in very good little used condition
apart from a few cosmetic faults (now cleaned off) and the top of the original
tender missing, it really is very neat and clean.

BUT - at very slow speeds it seems to 'Pulse' for want of a better description ???

Can any body shed any light on what might be the cause.

I have gone through the maintenance regime and it runs as sweet as can be
pulling very smoothly once past the initial slow start/running problem.

This 'Pulse' effect is so pronounced that any other loco on the track at the same
time pulses as well, as do any lights (track powered), they go on/of at a steady
rate, also the lights on the TE and a slight buzzing can be heard from the transformer,
all returning to normal once a steady speed has been reached.

Motive power is analogue from a 5amp Gaugemaster via an Aristo TE, i have tried
it on 2 diff transformers, 3 dif TE's and a 1amp LGB controller all with the same results.

On stripping it down, all appears normal mechanically with no signs of stiffness or binding.

On removing the tender body there appears to be an extra circuit board ??, i have never seen before, could this be the cause. ?? Pic's below any idea what it might be??

Any idea's welcome - as it is quite frustrating having it sitting in a box not earning it's keep
especially every time SWMBO looks at it with that all knowing look.
I have not used it above initial tests, incase i may be causing damage to the Heisler or other electronic's

Pic's with the tender body removed

Extra board appears glued to the balast weight at rear of the tender

From above

 

[ntpntpntp]

That's a Lenz Gold Maxi DCC decoder you've got wired in there.

That would cause the pulsing at slow speed on analogue DC - it requires a minimum voltage to wake up the decoder, and on the cusp of that voltage you sometimes get that sort of pulsing effect.

If you don't run DCC then might as well remove the decoder. (and post it to me, I've got a use for it <grin>!)

As a quick test, you can disconnect the motor and track wiring and join these to bypass the decoder. Assuming the connector markings are still present, disconnect the 2 "M" wires (motor), disconnect the 2 "G" wires (Gleis = track) and join each M to a G. The diagram on about page 3 of the following may help:

http://www.lenz.com/manuals/decoders/goldmaxi.pdf

The other wires on the same connector block as the M & G connections are for the head and tail lights. Plus it looks like you've also got something wired into DCC functions "FC" and "FD" (function 1 & 2) on the other connector block. Might take a little more figuring out to trace what this is controlling - perhaps cab light or flickering firebox, or maybe even the smoke unit? You should be able to get the wiring diagram for the Heisler from Bachmann's web site which will help you restore everything to analogue DC mode.

 

[Rob s]

That's a Lenz Gold Maxi DCC decoder you've got wired in there.

That would cause the pulsing at slow speed - it requires a minimum voltage to wake up the decoder, and on the cusp of that voltage you sometimes get that sort of pulsing effect.

If you don't run DCC then might as well remove the decoder. (and post it to me, I've got a use for it <grin>!)

Hi Nick
Thanks for the heads up, now i have some where to start, is it likely to cause any damage
to any other electronics ??

I thought about removing it, but as you can see the wiring loom is a bit of a spagheti
soup. most of the wires appear to be screw fit but some disapear and at least one is
hard wired.

Is there a simple disconect for now, that can be done with out complete dismantling
all, untill i can get hold of a wireing diagram or some one that knows what they are
doing ??

As for posting to you on removal, is it worth any thing, would it pay for a new tender
top?? if i can track one down ??

 

[ntpntpntp]

Thanks for the heads up, now i have some where to start, is it likely to cause any damage
to any other electronics ??

no, should be fine.

Is there a simple disconect for now, that can be done with out complete dismantling
all, untill i can get hold of a wireing diagram or some one that knows what they are
doing ??

yes, see re-edited version of my earlier reply. I'd expect most of the wires you disconnect from the decoder go back into connector blocks on the main board - just need to find out which is which.

As for posting to you on removal, is it worth any thing, would it pay for a new tender
top?? if i can track one down ??

nah, peanuts! ---- only joking! I think a new one's about £50. Stick it on the GSC for sale section.

 

[Rob s]

That's a Lenz Gold Maxi DCC decoder you've got wired in there.

That would cause the pulsing at slow speed on analogue DC - it requires a minimum voltage to wake up the decoder, and on the cusp of that voltage you sometimes get that sort of pulsing effect.

If you don't run DCC then might as well remove the decoder. (and post it to me, I've got a use for it <grin>!)

As a quick test, you can disconnect the motor and track wiring and join these to bypass the decoder. Assuming the connector markings are still present, disconnect the 2 "M" wires (motor), disconnect the 2 "G" wires (Gleis = track) and join each M to a G. The diagram on about page 3 of the following may help:

http://www.lenz.com/manuals/decoders/goldmaxi.pdf

The other wires on the same connector block as the M & G connections are for the head and tail lights. Plus it looks like you've also got something wired into a DCC function "FC" (function 1) on the other connector block. Might take a little more figuring out to trace what this is controlling - perhaps cab light or flickering firebox, or maybe even the smoke unit? You should be able to get the wiring diagram for the Heisler from Bachmann's web site which will help you restore everything to analogue DC mode.

Thanks again Nick

Have tried the above, and loco runs OK no pulsing ,
but no lights or smoke ?? and there is a slight buzzing sound from some where ??

Will print the circuit diagrams and have a better go tom in day light, specially as
it's forcast to rain here all day.

Just had a look see in a couple of other loco's i also bought recently 2 have this
same extra board, but they do not pulse? seems strange.

Good to know not going to damage any thing can at least run loco now,
give it a decent trial run

 

[ntpntpntp]

... but no lights or smoke ??

no, not until you rewire these back to the main board once you've found out what goes where from the Heisler wiring diagram.

... and there is a slight buzzing sound from some where ??

keep an ear on that and see if you can pinpoint it, but it might be its just one of the motors' normal sound. I'd be inclined to make a note of the other wiring connections into the decoder, then remove and insulate these just to be sure nothing's feeding back into the decoder.

Will print the circuit diagrams and have a better go tom in day light, specially as
it's forcast to rain here all day.

good luck! I reckon it won't take you long to figure it out. As I said, I'd expect each wire from the decoder to have a home to go to on the main board. On some other bachman locos I've chipped it's just been a case of transferring wires from the connector on the main board to the decoder.

Just had a look see in a couple of other loco's i also bought recently 2 have this
same extra board, but they do not pulse? seems strange.

Exactly the same extra board, and bought from the same source, ie. someone who favoured the Lenz decoders? My one and only Gold Maxi definitely used to pulse like that, and a couple of my other decoders do the same when I run the loco on rollers with a DC bench power supply. Only for a very small range of voltage - somewhere around 6-7 volts I think. Some decoders wake up on less voltage than others.

Maybe your other locos are getting to 7 volts before they even want to move, so you don't see any pulsing. Or possibly the other decoders have got longer acceleration/deceleration delays set which would tend to stop them trying to take off as soon as they see power.

 

[Rob s]

Exactly the same extra board, and bought from the same source, ie. someone who favoured the Lenz decoders? My one and only Gold Maxi definitely used to pulse like that, and a couple of my other decoders do the same when I run the loco on rollers with a DC bench power supply. Only for a very small range of voltage - somewhere around 6-7 volts I think. Some decoders wake up on less voltage than others.

Maybe your other locos are getting to 7 volts before they even want to move, so you don't see any pulsing. Or possibly the other decoders have got longer acceleration/deceleration delays set which would tend to stop them trying to take off as soon as they see power.

Hi Nick

Exact same boards, but dif source, other two from friend who had a dcc layout, till his divorce,
bought of him cheap as a sort of when you get settled you can buy them back
type of deal.

I knew they were chipped and your reply gogged a vague memory of him having mentioned Lenz
at some point, but he had an analogue layout at his holiday home, where i had seen them running fine.

Managed to get him on the phone, sounds easy but he works on an oil rig up north some where,
sounded a bit miffed i had took them apart. Did eventually spill the beanz thought,
apparently he has fitted a 'Power' unit ??? to these two to elimenate the pulse effect,
and some other problems he had running on annalogue.

So i now have another option (i think) well 3rd really, fit a power boost unit for now in the hope
i can raise enough readies to go digital in the future. (well one can only dream)

Or poss look at your other thought - have got longer acceleration/deceleration delays set -
how would i go about changing these delay sets.

Think i will have a go at disconecting the board any way. so i will have more time to investigate
all the options.

 

[pugwash]

Just out of interest, what is the turntable under the track seen in the first pic? Looks like a good idea that could come in handy, especially when spray painting.

 

[adeshers]

Just out of interest, what is the turntable under the track seen in the first pic? Looks like a good idea that could come in handy, especially when spray painting.

That's a plastic "TV Turntable" available for a few squidlies on evil bay. I've used one (not completed) for an engine turntable. It might get finished one day.

 

[ntpntpntp]

... apparently he has fitted a 'Power' unit ??? to these two to elimenate the pulse effect,
and some other problems he had running on annalogue.

Ah yes, sometimes called a Power Buffer. I think Lenz refer to it as USP in that decoder manual I linked to earlier. If that's the case then there'll be a little package of capacitors connected to the 3-terminal block that's halfway down the long side of the decoder. Maybe having one of those does have some effect on the "pulsing" - I don't know. It's really intended as a short term power store to keep the decoder alive if the loco hits dirty track.

... Or poss look at your other thought - have got longer acceleration/deceleration delays set -
how would i go about changing these delay sets.

You'd need a DCC system to program the decoder, or one of the computer interface & software combinations sold for decoder programming such as a SPROG that we DCC folk mention on here from time to time. Or a nearby friend with such gear! Not worth you investing in anything like that unless/until you decide to turn to the Dark Side of DCC! (I did and I've not regretted it, although I could run my simple garden line just as easily with good old DC)

 

[Rob s]

Just out of interest, what is the turntable under the track seen in the first pic? Looks like a good idea that could come in handy, especially when spray painting.

Hi pugwash

It is indeed a Tv type turn table, picked it up at llanfair for £2.80p
Its brill wish i had bought a couple more, takes up to 30kg in weight
and as you can see with a 2 foot piece of track it will easily take a 3 truck shay
and make it very easy to rotate, its very stable too
Its made of a Nylon top/bottom plate with some Nylon bearings in side, the more weight
the easier it turns.
Was going to turn it in to a loco turn table - tried with some nylo-lube and heavy weights on
each side of the track, the loco turns in the wind very smoothly.
But i have found it so usefull on the work bench that i will have to source another for the bash

 

[Rob s]

Ah yes, sometimes called a Power Buffer. I think Lenz refer to it as USP in that decoder manual I linked to earlier. If that's the case then there'll be a little package of capacitors connected to the 3-terminal block that's halfway down the long side of the decoder. Maybe having one of those does have some effect on the "pulsing" - I don't know. It's really intended as a short term power store to keep the decoder alive if the loco hits dirty track.

... Or poss look at your other thought - have got longer acceleration/deceleration delays set -
how would i go about changing these delay sets.

You'd need a DCC system to program the decoder, or one of the computer interface & software combinations sold for decoder programming such as a SPROG that we DCC folk mention on here from time to time. Or a nearby friend with such gear! Not worth you investing in anything like that unless/until you decide to turn to the Dark Side of DCC! (I did and I've not regretted it, although I could run my simple garden line just as easily with good old DC)

Found the 'Power Buffer' USP on On Track £34 - too rich for me just to have a play

Any one in the West Mids have the right gear to try re-programing this chip ??

Am about 1/2 way to saving up for a punt at DCC will only take the plunge when i have enough dosh to buy all the kit and chips for the rest of my stock, but at this rate will take another 2/3 years.

So for a change - hope it rains tom

Thanks again folks

 

[Richie]

Does look like a nice model Rob good to see you got all the pen off will have to have a logging run day for some testing one day ,hope to start on my log yard over winter

 

[beavercreek]

I had 'pulsing locos on the lines that had auto reverse modules. The modules could only handle about 1 amp and would 'pulse' when the load exceeded that. I use 5amp modules now so no pulsing.

Does look like a nice model Rob good to see you got all the pen off will have to have a logging run day for some testing one day ,hope to start on my log yard over winter

Look forward to the new logging yard Richie. I will be adding the final touches to the new 'Point Rock Timber Supplies' area on my layout probably in October/November. Then it will be Arrowhead's turn for redevelopment with the loss of its logging franchise! Although I am considering the possibility of keeping something for the logging trains to travel between....we'll see.
Doing all of the final garage plasterboarding today. Just taken a break from the rigours.

I had 'pulsing locos on the lines that had auto reverse modules. The modules could only handle about 1 amp and would 'pulse' when the load exceeded that. I use 5amp modules now so no pulsing.

 

[Rob s]

Thanks for the turntable tip. Just bought one on Ebay from a place up in Shropshire. £5 incl postage.
Somewhere I have seen a diagram for motorising one of these by using a very low rpm motor (1-2 rpm) with a rubber wheel on the spindle rubbing on the side of the turning platform. Suppose it depends on the type of turntable you buy.

That bowl off spaghetti wiring is just the same as some aeromodellers do to their models and then wonder why the prang!

Ross
Tried the slow motor with a rubber drive (salvaged from an old video player) worked ok when there was no load on the table, but when a load was added i think there was too much play in the table bearings as it slipped now and then, was thinking of putting a centre controll spindle in it, but had not really found any thing usefull to use.

It's been dry and sunny today so have not had much chance to mess with the loco, but have managed to clean up the spagheti to try and make sense of it, some where along the way i have figured that the main board is not wired as per the Bachmann diagram and the Lenz board is def not wired as per their daigram.

The Smoke unit and the reverse light don't work in any configuration but both work when direct wired, so i am now totally lost.

 

[Rob s]

Does look like a nice model Rob good to see you got all the pen off will have to have a logging run day for some testing one day ,hope to start on my log yard over winter

Richie

It really is a nice model and goes well with the shays, took a week to lift the felt tip colouring from all of the loco,
The side of the tender in the pic was the first piece and as you can see, the first 1/2 dozen dif ways i tried, eventually removed the ink but left it with a slightly a whiteish sheen,
and in places a polished surface, only in certain light.
I think that i left the meth's on a bit too long to start with. :bleh:
Once i found a good way to get it off, the rest was easy, and has come out quite well,
now all i have to do is pluck up the courage to try weathering it like some of your stock. :admire:

A Loging run day would be very very good, :callme:

Have gathered a fair amount of logging stock about 50 pieces, but have only managed to find enough real logs for about 1/2, don't have quite the choice of supply you have :crying::

Our local farmer is starting to give me funny looks when i walk the dogs along the edge of his fields.

Have picked up a fair few plastic logs thought and have started to play with weathering some
of them they look fairly good, but i need to nail down a more realistic colour and a more natural varnish finish.
Will post a some pic's when i have a few dif one's see what people think, might have to pop over and get some tips from you.

Can't wait to see your log yard, i need some inspiration for the extension (now have 80% of the bits i need) just need to find about a week of spare time :impatient:

 

[ntpntpntp]

The Smoke unit and the reverse light don't work in any configuration but both work when direct wired, so i am now totally lost.

Hi Rob,

might be an idea to post some more photos or diagrams of where you've got to and what's puzzling and/or still left to sort out? Maybe then someone can offer further advise?

 

[Rob s]

The Smoke unit and the reverse light don't work in any configuration but both work when direct wired, so i am now totally lost.

Hi Rob,

might be an idea to post some more photos or diagrams of where you've got to and what's puzzling and/or still left to sort out? Maybe then someone can offer further advise?

Nick, good idea

Unfortunately (or not depends on what you are trying to do) the weather forcasters got it 180deg out, this weekend here, the SUN has been shining full on, bright and hot all weekend,
So work has had to take precedence over, fun :bleh:

Did get 1/2 hour after lunch, the lights now work, i found a loose pair of wires, this may have been my fault, being a little over entusiastic lifting the tender body, smoke unit still
not working on either board though.

The buzzing noise i picked up is def coming from the motor block, it's louder when the lenz
board is disconected, but can still be heard faintly when i put the wireing back to its
origional settings, just had not picked it up before as i had not really been looking for it.

Have put it back together for now as it will be at least 3 weeks before i will have a decent lenght of time spare to have another proper go, and it runs fine, really good puller at low speed, just over 7.3 volts gets it over the pulsing.

Will get some decent pics, and pick up this thread again, as soon as time permits.

Thanks for your help so far, as you say should not be to difficult to sort once i have enough time to get my head around the wiring diagrams, I hope

 

[Rob s]

The Smoke unit and the reverse light don't work in any configuration but both work when direct wired, so i am now totally lost.

Hi Rob,

might be an idea to post some more photos or diagrams of where you've got to and what's puzzling and/or still left to sort out? Maybe then someone can offer further advise?

Hi Nick
Quick up date, as i finally had a day of work and it 'Rained' so had a chance to have a real go at sorting out the wireing
Thanks for all your help and advise, and as you sugested, once i got my head round the wiring diagram it was fairly
straight forward.

The lights work fine, having spotted that two wires on the PCB needed to be moved to diffent connectors, to the ones for DCC
The Smoke unit also works, easy when you finally remember that there is a switch to turn it on

My only query is that there appears to be two pairs of Black and Red wires that were not connected to anything, but
are just wrapped in clear tape :thinking:

Should they be connected to any thing or are they for some other use ???

Does any body know if these are supposed to be left like this or should they be connected
any where, thanks in advance.

 

[ntpntpntp]

My only query is that there appears to be two pairs of Black and Red wires that were not connected to anything, but
are just wrapped in clear tape :thinking:
Should they be connected to any thing or are they for some other use ???

Hi Rob, glad you're getting somewhere!

Hmm..., not having one of these I don't know for sure what these other wires are. If everything you want to work is working as-is then I wouldn't worry about them. Can you trace where they go, ie. do they disappear into the loco bodywork, or are they attached to the main board? If they're not attached to the main board then my guess is they're probably wiring for a chuff sensor and speaker, but don't take my word for it.