British Trams

[bobg]

Many years ago my old Codg, god bless him, kit-bashed this, with much modification etc., from a 00 die-cast kit.

The paint is now well discoloured (I think it was supposed to be cream and maroon), and it is generally getting a bit knocked about, but it occurred to me that similar would be very nice in 45mm gauge. Other than that thought I have absolutely no idea where to start building.

For the unenlightened it is a Bexleyheath car, I believe the route and number were from the one he used to take to go to work, probably at the Signwritters or maybe the Dartford paper mills.

 

[Mice 1]

Hi

There are a number of Tram sites on the web.
http://www.tramwayinfo.com/ or http://www.terryrusselltrams.co.uk/links.htm

may help you.

Mike G

 

[bobg]

Thanks Mike, I knew of the first one, but the second I haven't seen.

 

[LTfan]

Do we still have the member who posted pics of some G scale trams he'd built?
(might have been on the earlier forum)

At the Llanfair show, some years ago, there was a G scale tram setup - anybody recall this?

David

 

[Dtsteam]

There is a member of this forum, Sparkeswood, who has a really good method of building G scales trams out of balsa. He did start a blog on his own website some time ago to build a london tram, but that site doese not appear to be up any more. Maybe he would summarise the technique ?

 

[Bredebahn]

It was certainly Sparkeswood - Troy - that built beautiful 45mm gauge trams. He thought them unremarkable - everyone else disagreed, they were (are) beautiful. Here's a couple of examples he built as guest runners on the old Bredebahn....

 

[Bredebahn]

We had to be a bit restrictive on the Route Availability - but I recall that the conversion to a single decker tram took about 20 seconds and involved the removal of four dressmakers pins.............

 

[bobg]

They look good enough in the pics John. I take it they are track powered.

I was probably thinking along the lines of using placticard but, why not balsa? A good medium for compound curves like roofs and front panels. Perhaps a mix for strength?

The Terry Russell site that Mice 1 posted has some superb pics.

 

[MRail]

At the Llanfair show, some years ago, there was a G scale tram setup - anybody recall this?
David

These were under the umbrella of the TLRS, and were (are) to ¾" scale, 3½" gauge. Layout run by Tony Sibert.
(I used to be active in this outfit - some years ago)
Rather bigger than "G".

The revamped Llanfair show organisers have cut out the tramway layouts.

The Manchester Tramway society builds to 5/8" scale, equivalent to 16mm or 1:19.

 

[Bredebahn]

They look good enough in the pics John. I take it they are track powered.

I was probably thinking along the lines of using placticard but, why not balsa? A good medium for compound curves like roofs and front panels. Perhaps a mix for strength?

The Terry Russell site that Mice 1 posted has some superb pics.

Yes - I think they were fitted with USA or Aristo motor bogies. Ran very smoothly.

 

[Dtsteam]

I used to be in the TLRS as well. In the larger scales they tended to try and build more like the real thing - hardwood frames and plywood panels. Presumably Rob remembers Peter Gavins excellent models, amongst others. In G scale there were a few notable builders, and one, Tony Parkinson, who absolutely excelled at plasticard. Troys balsa & track pin technique, however , was robust and straightforward. As John said, he is very modest, but for me the Blackpool Standard in the second shot is absolutely spot on.

 

[MRail]

I used to be in the TLRS as well. Presumably Rob remembers Peter Gavins excellent models, amongst others.

I do indeed Peter (RIP) was a leading light to the Merseyside TLRS, despite being a Yorkshireman and living nearer to Manchester.

Looking back, I recall attending exhibitions with him and seeing steam trains on something called Cross Foxes, which didn't impress me.
Years later, the problem of overhead wiring and large rad curves in a small gadren made me move to 16mm railways.
I then found that Cross Foxes was something of an icon in the 16mm world.
Now I've incorporated a 45mm tramline and am looking again at the overhead.

 

[bobg]

Overhead is probably not so much of a problem with a pantograph, but what about with a pole which is more standard with British designs?

I'm thinking that as I run steam, track connections will be not so good, so to run the pos. through both rails and the neg. overhead would perhaps save some of the cleaning and any polarity problems?

 

[Bredebahn]

Overhead is probably not so much of a problem with a pantograph, but what about with a pole which is more standard with British designs?

I'm thinking that as I run steam, track connections will be not so good, so to run the pos. through both rails and the neg. overhead would perhaps save some of the cleaning and any polarity problems?

I guess so if you're rewiring the power bogies. Wasn't the prototype the other way around polarity wise? - it would have saved pedestrians and other road users being electrocuted on contact.......... I recall that there was actually a plunger system used on parts of some tramways (Hastings and Torquay were among them) called the Dolter Stud whereby the positive of a 550vDC current was collected under the tram by means of skates which were magnetised to energise the stud as the tram passed over. Current was then returned via the running rails. Sounds extremely dodgy to me!

 

[dragon]

There is a member of this forum, Sparkeswood, who has a really good method of building G scales trams out of balsa. He did start a blog on his own website some time ago to build a london tram, but that site doese not appear to be up any more. Maybe he would summarise the technique ?

I was watching a couple of Troys lovely trams trundling round on one of the GSM Dvds ther other day.

 

[bobg]

Overhead is probably not so much of a problem with a pantograph, but what about with a pole which is more standard with British designs?

I'm thinking that as I run steam, track connections will be not so good, so to run the pos. through both rails and the neg. overhead would perhaps save some of the cleaning and any polarity problems?

I guess so if you're rewiring the power bogies. Wasn't the prototype the other way around polarity wise? - it would have saved pedestrians and other road users being electrocuted on contact.......... I recall that there was actually a plunger system used on parts of some tramways (Hastings and Torquay were among them) called the Dolter Stud whereby the positive of a 550vDC current was collected under the tram by means of skates which were magnetised to energise the stud as the tram passed over. Current was then returned via the running rails. Sounds extremely dodgy to me!

Well could just as easily be tother polarity, 'twas just a eggsample.

 

[Dtsteam]

Overhead is probably not so much of a problem with a pantograph, but what about with a pole which is more standard with British designs?

I recall that there was actually a plunger system used on parts of some tramways (Hastings and Torquay were among them) called the Dolter Stud whereby the positive of a 550vDC current was collected under the tram by means of skates which were magnetised to energise the stud as the tram passed over. Current was then returned via the running rails. Sounds extremely dodgy to me!

Bobg - This is Alyns territory. but its perfectly practical to construct overhead suitable for trolley poles. The main issue is that it tends to be more delicate and less critter-proof.

Bredebahn - the problem I understand was when studs got stuck in the up position, and therefore stayed live. Wolverhampton used the Lorain system, which had the same weakness and was blamed for electrocuting a number of horses. Ironically the new Bordeaux system uses a centre third rail, switched on by radio signal from the tram..

 

[MRail]

Overhead is probably not so much of a problem with a pantograph, but what about with a pole which is more standard with British designs?

My perceived problems were not with operation, but with the human interface...
ie Stepping over it for access and of course, the dreaded washing line.

 

[MRail]

I used to be in the TLRS as well. Presumably Rob remembers Peter Gavins excellent models, amongst others.

Nostalgia...

I've dug out an old VHS video of the Merseyside TLRS in action.
I shot this in 1984 at the Leonard Cheshire home at Freshfield.

There are my Liverpool cars, some single deckers by the late Brian Martin and several by the late Peter Gavin.
Also visible is LCC 132, on permanent loan from TLRS HQ, London, and very similar to the 00 model at the start of this thread.
At this time Tony Sibert was in process of building his first Liverpool model.

The layout was bare boards with 0 gauge bullhead rail chaired directly to the base at 3½" gauge.
I had started to pave up one terminal end.

The under scale overhead is powered at 24V with return via the rails.

Everything is scratch built, including resistance controllers.

YouTube URL:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkwhvwvDc04

 

[bobg]

Overhead is probably not so much of a problem with a pantograph, but what about with a pole which is more standard with British designs?

My perceived problems were not with operation, but with the human interface...
ie Stepping over it for access and of course, the dreaded washing line.

I, fortunately, don't have that problem. Good Vid. I see the similarity of the L.C.C. to the Bexleyheath tram, were they an "E" class or something like?