Buying a 3 truck DCC Shay with sound

maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
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I'm looking to buy a Bachmann 3 truck Shay that is factory fitted with Tsunami sound and is compatible with DC and DCC.
I run DC only with no plans, under any circumstances, to upgrade to DCC. What I need to know is this -

1) What sound features will I be able to access in DC operation alone. I.E. will I be able to get at least a synchronised chuff ?
2) I note there are a lot of built in extra sounds but how (if at all) are they accesed in the DC mode of operation only, reed switches perhaps or could I rig up something using my Aristo' TE TX to actuate these features ?
3) Is the loco as claimed automatically switchable between DC and DCC for sound and general operation. might visit those with DCC.

Any other relevent areas all of you may be able to advise on would be most welcome. I use the standard basic Aristo' Train Engineer (bought c 2004) R/C kit witha Crest 20amp 22/13.8v switchable transformer. No other electrics used on the layout. Aristo' TE can energise up to 10 separate momentary switches, each with 5 "addresses", as well as govern the loco's speed.
Max.
 
On DC you have a chuff that is not exactly synchronised to the drive shaft rotation, and nothing else. There is no provision to trigger any of the sounds other than with DCC.
 
Hi Max
I have one of these little beasts.
DC: you get the blower, pump chuff and brake squeal on braking. Also bell on reverse. all at above 5v but not individually triggered
DCC: chuff, whistle, bell squeal, blower pump, rod clank and a lot more....... see this...http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/Bachmann%20Quick%20Start%20Guide.pdf
Yes it is just simple to change use from DC to DCC no switches necessary. Just do not use 'PWC' or the like as this will screw the DCC decoder

One thing to remember though...
Soundtraxx had 'ported' a redesign of one of their smaller scale decoders to put in the 1:20.3 Shay. There is a top voltage of 21V. If you go above this it tends to cut out but comes back on if you lower the voltage. I tend not to use above 19v on my DC or DCC anyway so it works just fine.

The volume is not loud, in fact it can be described as 'subtle' more than raucous!
 
[quote author=beavercreek link=topic=298303.msg307910#msg307910 date=1393931571]
Hi Max
<Snip>

The volume is not loud, in fact it can be described as `subtle` more than raucous!
[/quote]

I have improved the sound output on three of these beasties using additional amplification from a TDA 7056B chip. Initial attempts using track power for the amplifier were spoiled by hum so I used rechargeable batteries. I also fitted a track powered relay to automatically switch off the batteries during storage. The Bachmann fitted sound chip needs a greater than the relay voltage to work anyway.
I`m fairly sure that I replaced the stock speaker with a Visaton FRS8, it all fitted in the rear water tank with the fuse, charging jack and volume control all beneath the water hatch.

Shay Sound.JPG

On analogue the crossing whistle is triggered by a sudden voltage change. I rigged a crude but effective system to operate this remotely using a cheapo Chinese remote garage door opener and a string of diodes. The diodes were inserted into a track feed wire and are normally shorted out by the normally closed contacts of one of door opener relays. Tapping the operating button momentarily opens these contacts, causing a brief voltage drop and triggering the whistle. Typical door openers have more than one channel so the system can be extended to work independently on more than one track

I experimented with CV settings for optimum working on analogue, personally I found the following worked well.



CV

29 Set to 5 for Analogue permitted operation,14 speed steps, LGB compatible direction   
        with directional lamps O.K. Leave smokebox switch on NMRA.

139 Set to 200 for increased brake squeal volume.   
                                                                                                 
153 Set to 3 for medium speaker.

193 Set to 20, bell on voltage.

194 Set to 45, bell off voltage.

195 Set to 3, Crossing Whistle sensitivity.

196 Set to 2, Brake squeal sensitivity.

197 Set to 31 to turn all available analogue sounds on.

Hope this is of some use.
 
For the lazy and less electronically gifted amongst us, a ready made amp, these little jobbies are really useful.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-USB-Music-Angel-Player-Mini-Speaker-Fr-PC-MP3-4-Wt-Micro-SD-TF-Port-/121174991895?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item1c3697a417

There are many varieties of them (at a variety of lowish prices) but most of the ones with FM radios built-in are problematic as they need to have a 'press' of the mode button to change from the FM to the audio in function as it reverts to FM when switched off. There are some with manual locking switches which would be fine for use inside a closed tender.
The one in this ebay auction does not have FM so this is not a problem

They can be used for a lot of applications (like in buildings using sounds on an SD card etc) but in a loco tender they can be used as an amplifier for a 'low power' output card and easily hooked up to the speaker output from the sound card and then the loco/tender speaker can be plugged into the unit with a 3.5mm jack. They have a lithium battery that lasts for about 3 to 4 hours on a charge (depending on the speaker rating).
They also can be easily charged by using a usb to female jack converter and fixing that underneath the tender.
The only problem is accessing the on off switch. If the tender top is removable this is no problem. Of course they are cheap enough to have delve inside and 'interrupt' the unit on/off switch to hook up one under the tender.
 
Thank you for your advise all. It would seem from the collected comments I am going to get little value from the sound enabled Shay in DC mode alone. There seems to be too much technical stuff and possible additional complications to get through for it to be of any real value. I'll stick to my trusty 7 year old mute version and have the soundtrack playin in my head when she runs. At a net cost of c£200+ to buy a new one and sell off the old there seems little point given the limited "play value" of the new.
Max.
 
Hi max
The additions are only to amplify the sound above the 'out of the box' power.
I have only real complaint about the level on a few occasions like when I have had an open day and there is a lot of competing sound etc.
When on my own I am happy with the out of the box sound level.

As to DC sound not being as flexible as the DCC functioning. on the shay......
You do get all of the sounds, but they are not selectable for when you might want, eg. using the whistle ad-hoc.
If you change the track voltage via a controller you will get the grade crossing whistle even in DC.
In DC you get the chuff, blower, air-pump, whistle and bell. (You could also get rod clank if it was a normal steamer!).

Don't write it off, the quality of the sounds are excellent (just like any Soundtraxx setup). For a bargain price you get one hell of a lot of loco.

I too have a couple of the two truck versions, both with added sound (not factory like the three truck jobby of course). The three truck one serves my ability to run DC or DCC whereas mu 'older' ones are just DC....for now!
 
maxi-model said:
Thank you for your advise all. ............ I'll stick to my trusty 7 year old mute version and have the soundtrack playin in my head when she runs. At a net cost of c£200+ to buy a new one and sell off the old there seems little point given the limited "play value" of the new.
Max.
Click to expand...
For not a lot more than c£200 you could purchase a Phoenix PB11 sound card and fit it to your existing loco . IMHO these are the best on the market, especially for analogue operation.
 
Hi Mike I was hoping you would show up here on this one, you have plenty of experience on these matters.

I take your comment about the "volume" as a positive given the main reason for my resistance to a "sound" loco up to now has been one of the percieved antisocial aspect of these things, the noise they can make at shows I have found to be just plain irritating. I bottled out of adding sound to one of my K-27's about 2 years ago primaraly for that reason (and the installer was going to end up giving me a double speed chuff, triggers on the tender wheels !). Sound on a loco has always been a "would be nice" not essential.

The cost of the new loco would be offset by the sale of the existing "mute" loco giving the net price of c£200. I just do not think I'm going to get £200 worth of fun, that's all. l obviously don't want it enough, or I'm getting sensible with my money at last.
Max.
 
Hi Max
I have the Westside Lumber 3 truck shay with sound and only use DC the sound is really nice but a little low volume ,you get the bell ringing and 2 hoots before pulling away and 3 hoots in reverse and 1 hoot when you stop , you have standing sounds all the time no need for battery back up as there is power to the loco at all times . As with DCC I haven't ever tried it been put off with the low voltage the decoder takes.
Here's a video of mine in action with the sound .
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k7vpEOcgmtA
 
Hi Richie. I think you might just have sold me with that display. Better get the calculator out again. Never realised how well detailed and planted your line was. A real treat to look at. Nice....mmmmm.
Max.
 
This is way beyond my level of expertise.
However if you were wanting to buy a real "shay" in semi working ( the boiler is good but lots of TLC needed) condition I have a contact with one for sale he also has 2 Ex Prahran and Malvern trust trams for sale. I have a suitable power supply to run the electric trams from a 415V 3Phase power outlet.... Unfortunately the practical realisation that both these trams are standard gauge precludes their use on my tramway.... The ensuing divorce would cost me too much anyway
 
tramcar trev said:
However if you were wanting to buy a real "shay" in semi working ( the boiler is good but lots of TLC needed) condition I have a contact with one for sale he also has 2 Ex Prahran and Malvern trust trams for sale. I have a suitable power supply to run the electric trams from a 415V 3Phase power outlet....
Click to expand...
Funny you should mention this Trev. I have an unoffical preservation group, that I visit at times, about 1.5 miles up the road who have bought the trackbed and goods yard area from the old GCR Finmere station. They have laid quite a bit of track and rebuilt the platforms. They also have a number of stock items which includes a fully working BR Class 73 electro diesel.
Now, not only do I have a place nearby to run my own standard gauge Shay but also a means to power those trams too. Look up the class 73 on Wikipedia, you can drive them remote from things like 4VEP EMU's and suchlike. So how much is the Shay and will the Aussie postal service be able to get it under the wire here so I don't pay 20% vat on the price and shipping ? :D :D :D ;)

Max.
 
maxi-model said:
Hi Richie. I think you might just have sold me with that display. Better get the calculator out again. Never realised how well detailed and planted your line was. A real treat to look at. Nice....mmmmm.
Max.
Click to expand...
Richie's garden railway is indeed a treat to see and the planting at the top end is fantastic.

I have taken a cheaper route with my Shay. I have recently fitted a mylocosound sound chip. This was quite an easy operation as it all goes in the rear tender. The chip cost £48, the speaker £2 and I also spent about £15 on rechargeable batteries, switches and a socket. This chip does need a 12 volt battery back up. The chip is sensitive to changes in power so the chuffing stops when the power is reduced. There are no fancy special effects but you do get an automatic whistle when the loco starts.
This video shows the Shay in action today and also my 2-4-2 tank with exactly the same chip. Fitting it into the tank engine was a much harder job due to space issues. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui_JIo1Vyxs&feature=youtu.be
 
maxi-model said:
Hi Richie. I think you might just have sold me with that display. Better get the calculator out again. Never realised how well detailed and planted your line was. A real treat to look at. Nice....mmmmm.
Max.
Click to expand...
Hi Max & Chris
Many thanks for your kind remarks on my layout and planting has taken several years to get to this state the only problem I have are the rocks are starting to break up from frost damage . Rob brought along a 3 truck shay with sound when he came to see my line after watching and listening to the loco I thought I would love to have one , few weeks later I got one from two jags . It's a shame they didn't fit a volume switch ,I have seen what Neil has done with others when I spoke with him at Stafford show but electrics are not my thing so haven't touched mine. On a nice sunny day it does sound nice just chugging round the garden .
 
maxi-model said:
Funny you should mention this Trev. I have an unoffical preservation group, that I visit at times, about 1.5 miles up the road who have bought the trackbed and goods yard area from the old GCR Finmere station. They have laid quite a bit of track and rebuilt the platforms. They also have a number of stock items which includes a fully working BR Class 73 electro diesel.
Now, not only do I have a place nearby to run my own standard gauge Shay but also a means to power those trams too. Look up the class 73 on Wikipedia, you can drive them remote from things like 4VEP EMU's and suchlike. So how much is the Shay and will the Aussie postal service be able to get it under the wire here so I don't pay 20% vat on the price and shipping ? :D :D :D ;)

Max.
Click to expand...
Regrettably finding a box big enough for Australia Post is the least of your worries, these items are protected by a movable cultural heritage order http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2012C00239 this precludes the owner selling the 600mm Shay off to American buyers for what it is really worth and the 2 trams will eventually end up rotting in the back of some museum due to lack of restoration funding.... Seriously If I had the money I would buy one of the trams.... They are true icons.... The Shay on the other hand may end up at Belgrave, its now near Taree where it was discovered sitting in a shed since it was last used on a logging railway on the north coast.
 
tramcar trev said:
these items are protected by a movable cultural heritage order http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2012C00239
Click to expand...
If Lord Elgin can have his marbles I shall have my Shay. We Brits have a track record on this sort of thing you know Trev.
There are some rather nice ex' SA Garratts roaming free in the Welsh highlands these days......and that was not a spot of repatriation.

Anyhow I hope all see sence and they all find good caring homes where they will be fully appreciated and enjoy a fullfilling operational life.
Max
 
What a lovely day today. Managed to give the Shay a run before going out for a walk. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bf52iDVHO0&feature=youtu.be
 
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