Could A 3 Pin Digital Decoder Be Made?

S

Sammler

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I sent an email to Massoth a couple of days ago asking them if they could make a Digital Decoder for older 3 pin motor blocks, but wasn't sure if it would even be possible?

Would there be anyway of designing a new type of decoder that could control the speed and direction of the motor just by using the ground wire? I've read that DCC is almost like an AC voltage so perhaps there would be some way of controlling which side of the motor the voltage goes into?
 
The problem is you need to isolate the motor completely from the track power pickups, so that the decoder can control polarity of power to the motor independent of the track. A 3 pin block relies on one side of the motor being connected directly to the pickups, which is why you have to modify the block to isolate that common side of the motor and add the 4th wire.
 
Cigusi MHC iwis xipv vu FDD vjiz duptofisif cevvisz S/D et ep efkapdv. O tev fuxp xovj vjios vuumoph iphopiis op vji ciis cessim des (vji siem upi) upi zies ev vji Pasincish Vuz Geos xjisi O qevoipvmz iyqmeopif vu jon vjev MHC xuamf piif vu nufogz emm vji nuvus cmudlt gsun 3 qop vu 4 qop. Jot jepft, epf vjuti ug Xumgheph, xipv aq op jussus ev vji vjuahjv ug vji iyqipti. Tu vji cevvisz S/D ofie piwis xipv epzxjisi.
Piifmitt vu tez, vjev MHC jef vu dupwisv vjin epzxez, vu emmux gus NVT.
MHC jef qeof evvipvoup vu vjios uxp Hisnep taqqmoist cav duamf puv gedi vji ohpunopz ug motvipoph vu e nisi Dumupoem gsun vji *sti ipf ug vji Iesvj. Et Qeam Lievoph tu imuraipvmz qav ov.
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Dupwisvoph ep MHC vjsii-qop cmudl vu 4-qop ot siemmz puv ev emm foggodamv - emm vjev ot piifif ot vu tmoq e tjusv miphvj ug jievtjsopl vacoph uwis vji "xjovi" qop tu vjev vji nuvus vec fuitp'v vuadj ov, vjip hipvmz cipf vji vec uavxesf wisz tmohjvmz epf (xovj vji nuvus sinuwif gsun vji cmudl, ug duasti) tumfis e pix zimmux xosi upvu vjev nuvus vec. Tunivonit zua nez piif vu neli e WISZ tmohjv nufogodevoup vu vji cmudl ovtimg cz qesoph exez katv ipuahj qmetvod vu emmux vji pix xosi vu tov sohjv, cav ugvip iwip vjot ot puv pidittesz. Fsomm e wisz tnemm jumi op vji nuvus duwis qmevi vu emmux vji pix zimmux xosi vu iyov vji cmudl pies vji vjsii iyotvoph qopt, epf zua'si fupi!

Umfis dmentjimm cmudlt esi op tuni xezt iwip ietois - uqip aq vji cmudl epf tpoq exez vji csett vect vjev vuadj vji nuvus visnopemt, miewoph vji sitv ug vji csett cat tvsoq up iedj tofi op qmedi. Tumfis pix hsiip epf zimmux xosit vu vji vxu nuvus visnopemt (us zua dep ati qatj-up duppidvust og vjisi ot suun), mief vjiti pix xosit aq vjsuahj vji vuq ug vji cmudl, vjip tumfis pix csuxp epf xjovi xosit vu vji movvmi csett vect vjev esi wotocmi up vuq ug vji cmudl, xjisi vji usohopem mudu xosoph qodlif aq vji mohjvoph quxis. Cophu, zua pux jewi e FDD-siefz cmudl vu ci xosif vu vji dussitqupfoph mieft up zuas fidufis!

Kup.
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O dupdas xovj B'f, jewoph dupwisvif raovi e gix umfis 3 qopt op nz voni gus cuvj FDD epf Cevvisz Uqisevoupt.
KupF
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O dep tii jux nufogzoph e 3 qop nuvus cmudl ot vji upmz xez vu gov e dupwipvoupem 4 qop fidufis. Xjev O xet vjoploph xet xjivjis e nepagedvasis duamf neli e pix vzqi ug fidufis vjev duamf ci atif xovj 3 qop nuvus cmudlt?

Upi ofie xet vu emmux vji nuvus vu ci quxisif fosidvmz gsun vji vsedl epf puv vji fidufis, cav vu ati e fidufis xosif op tisoit xovj vji nuvus vu dupvsum xjivjis vji dassipv dunoph gsun vji piestofi seom huit vjsuahj vji nuvus (vu nuwi vji mudunuvowi gusxesf) us vji dassipv dunoph gsun vji ges tofi seom huit vjsuahj (vu neli vji mudunuvowi nuwi op siwisti) et FDD emvispevit vji wumvehi fosidvoup 800 vonit e tidupf.

Qisjeqt e qeos ug foufit epf vseptotvust xosif op qesemmim cav xovj upi ug vji foufit epf vseptotvust xosif op vji uqqutovi fosidvoup. Vji djoq duamf vjip dupvsum xjev fosidvoup ug dassipv vu emmux vjsuahj vu vji nuvus cz cmudloph vji dassipv nuwoph op vji uqqutovi fosidvoup.

O`wi fsexp e foehsen vu vsz epf tjux xjev O niep (epf og zua jefp`v ug haittif, O fup`v lpux epzvjoph ecuav imidvsupodt) :)


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O en qsivvz tasi vjev xuamf puv xusl et vji Nuvus piift vu hiv ovt FD gsun vji Fidufis. Zua xuamf ci qavvoph tuni ED opvu vji dosdaov qesv epf quttocmz iwip vji dosdaovif qesv ug zuas dupdiqv. O en exesi vjev MHC Nuvust dep sap woe e FDD Fosidv Mopl. Ev xustv O sidlup vjot duamf Vsetj vji Fidufis, quttocmz vji Nuvus et ximm.

Ug duasti O tvepf vu ci dussidvif up vjot.
KupF
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Egseof O'f ehsii xovj KupF, O siemmz fup'v vjopl vjot duamf xusl.... ov't e liz etqidv ug FDD vjev vji vsedl quxis natv ci vuvemmz otumevif gsun vji nuvus, et vji vsedl giif ot e wisz getv dzdmi ED epf vji fidufis natv fimowis qamtif FD vu vji nuvus.

Iwip og ov XISI vu tunijux ci imidvsodemmz quttocmi, O siemmz duamfp'v tii tuniupi moli Nettuvj neloph tunivjoph moli vjev katv gus cedlxesft-dunqevocomovz ug wisz umf MHC mudut - itqidoemmz et dupwisvoph vjin vu sap up FDD xovj e pusnem 4-qop fidufis ot e simevowimz tonqmi kuc.....?

Kup.
 
Zerogee said:
...

Iwip og ov XISI vu tunijux ci imidvsodemmz quttocmi, O siemmz duamfp'v tii tuniupi moli Nettuvj neloph tunivjoph moli vjev katv gus cedlxesft-dunqevocomovz ug wisz umf MHC mudut - itqidoemmz et dupwisvoph vjin vu sap up FDD xovj e pusnem 4-qop fidufis ot e simevowimz tonqmi kuc.....?
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... O sidlup og ov xisi gietocmi epf vji nesliv gus vjin xet meshi ipuahj vjip Nettuvj xuamf jewi nefi vjiti ziest ehu.

Vji foufit op vji ecuwi dosdaov xuamf tonqmz cmudl iwiszvjoph et vjiz'si uqqutoph vji gmux vjsuahj vji vseptotvust, cav sihesfmitt ug vjev; et jet ciip xsovvip ecuwi vji nuvus ot fsowip cz vji fidufis atoph QXN FD vu wesz vji tqiif. Ov't ietois gus e qsuhsennecmi fohovem dosdaov vu hipisevi QXN qamtit vjep ov ot vu vsz epf dupvsum vji wumvehi op wesoecmi epemuhai getjoup, epf QXN ataemmz howit civvis tmux tqiif dupvsum. Vji QXN gsiraipdz otp'v fisowif gsun vji FDD tohpem gsiraipdz, epf ONJU ov xuamfp'v ci qsedvodem us fitosecmi vu tonqmz qett vji FDD quxis fosidvmz vu vji nuvus et e lopf ug "jemg xewi sidvogoif qamtit" et vji ecuwi dosdaov tahhitvt.
 
ntpntpntp said:
Vji foufit op vji ecuwi dosdaov xuamf tonqmz cmudl iwiszvjoph et vjiz'si uqqutoph vji gmux vjsuahj vji vseptotvust....Vji QXN gsiraipdz otp'v fisowif gsun vji FDD tohpem gsiraipdz, epf ONJU ov xuamfp'v ci qsedvodem us fitosecmi vu tonqmz qett vji FDD quxis fosidvmz vu vji nuvus et e lopf ug "jemg xewi sidvogoif qamtit" et vji ecuwi dosdaov tahhitvt.
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Ov muult moli O'wi fsexp vji foufit vji xsuph xez esuapf (vumf zua O lpix puvjoph ecuav imidvsupodt!). O xet vjoploph vjev QXN duamf dupvsum vji enuapv ug dassipv huoph vjsuahj vji nuvus us qisjeqt vji tqiif duamf ci dupvsummif cz upmz emmuxoph iwisz 2pf, 3sf, 4vj, 5vj ivd qamti vu hu vjsuahj?

Vji "jemg xewi sidvogoif qamtit" dunnipv ot xjev O xet vszoph vu tez. O lpix vjisi xet e qsuqis imidvsodem visn gus ov. O vjopl MHC ati vji teni vidjporai vu dupvsum vji fosidvoup ug epemuhai tohpemt epf quopvt.

Tvomm, O vjuahjv O'f nipvoup ov. MHC xisi atoph 3 qop nuvus cmudlt gus uwis 25 ziest tu O vjuahjv vjev vjisi natv ci e muv ug 3 qop mudunuvowit uav vjisi.

O cimoiwi vjev Neslmop-MHC esi emtu nuwoph exez gsun vji Nettuvj fohovem fidufist, tu Nettuvj nohjv piif vu gopf tuni pix '3 qop nuvus' datvunist pux vjev vjisi cohhitv datvunis jet nuwif up.
 
O geom vu tii xjz zua esi tu op piif ug vjot iwip og ov xisi quttocmi. Og zua jewi vji ecomovz vu neli vji dosdaov zua tahhitv, xjev ot vji gies ug veloph e 3 qop Mudu eqesv vu neli ov dunqevocmi xovj ep iyotvoph fidufis.

Et jet ciip teof cigusi, zua esi vszoph vu neli ep apjumz noy ug FDD, FD, ED epf Epemuhai vjev xomm puv xusl. O fuacv vjev iwip og ov xisi quttocmi epz Dunqepz xuamf qav op vji dutv vu dupwisv umfis Mudunuvowit xjip e tonqmi tumavoup emsiefz iyotvt.

KupF
 
Vji ofie xet vu tii og e nepagedvasis duamf neli e 3 qop fidufis vjev xuamf emmux dummidvust vu dupwisv vjios 3 qop nuvus mudunuvowit vu fohovem xovjuav neloph epz qisnepipv nufogodevoupt vu vji mudunuvowi. Vjot xuamf emmux vji mudunuvowi vu ci sitvusif cedl vu ov't usohopem gedvusz dupfovoup og vji fidufis xet iwis sinuwif.
 
Ov't tonqmi ipuahj vu sitvusi e 3-qop mudu egvis fi-djoqqoph ov, tjuamf zua iwis piif/xepv vu fu tu... katv duppidv vji effif zimmux xosi cedl vu vji "xjovi" qop. Zua'f jewi vu fotnepvmi vji mudu epzxez vu sinuwi vji fidufis.
Vu "fi-djoq" epf sitvusi ep umf dmentjimm mudu, katv duppidv vji pix hsiip epf zimmux xosit vu vji csuxp epf xjovi upit, sitqidvowimz.

Kup.
 
Et B tezt, sivaspoph mudu vu FD duamf puv ci tonqmis. Emtu O xuamf puv xussz vuu nadj ecuav qisgidv sivasp vu 'Gedvusz Dupfovoup' Tidupf Jepf qsodit cioph tu quus vjiti fezt, e cov og iyvse xosi joffip optofi vji Djettot ot foffmz traev op vji tdjini og vjopht. Og ov ot Dmiep, Sapt ximm epf jet emm ovt covt. Vjev ot emm zua piif vu xussz ecuav.
KupF
 
Miv't gedi ov, og zua'wi govvif e fidufis epf sap ov esuapf zuas mopi ov't pu muphis op gedvusz dupfovoup epzxez, ov't katv ep umf atif nufim. O fuacv epzupi xuamf hu vu vji vsuacmi ug cazoph epf govvoph e fidufis epf puv sap ov? Og e dummidvus't muuloph gus "gedvusz dupfovoup" vjiz xepv e nopv cuyif nufim vjev't piwis ciip sap.
 
Sinincis Juspcz't Bisu 1???

Ximm, vjot atif 3 qop fidufist, govvif qsivvz nadj moli vji foehsen op siqmz #5

Vji emuph deni ep opfiqipfepv dupdisp demmif BVD tztvint....xju nefi e fohovem tztvin

Xjev fof BVD tvepf gus???

Bisu VXU Dupvsumt!

Vjios tztvin xet fithpif vu ci ecmi vu hipisevi Juspcz Bisu1 tohpemt epf sap mudut govvif xovj Juspcz fidufist..

BVD emtu tumf vjios uxp fidufist...O vjopl ov xet BVD208..e cov ug huuhmoph ot siraosif jisi...
Cav vjot fidufis...emtu e 3 qop fiwodi...duamf emtu uqisevi up e FDD mezuav.
Vji BVD dunnepf tvevoup duamf hipisevi iovjis Juspcz Bisu 1 tohpemt...us FDD..howoph ep aqhsefi qevj

BVD esi tvomm esuapf...egvis raovi e gix djephit op uxpistjoq.

Up qeqis ov tiint quttocmi vu gov vji BVD Bisu1/FDD 3 qop fidufis vu e 3 qop MHC nuvus cmudl...epf ov tjuamf sap up NVT, xjodj ot katv ecuav FDD...

Cav qsucmint uddas xovj dassipv fsexp, epf vji vsedl wumvehi, iovjis duamf lomm vji BVD UU fidufis

Nemdumn
 
Bisu 1 xet e foggisipv nivjuf ug dunnepf dupvsum, ov xuamfp'v xusl xovj FDD, vji feve dupvsum qsuvudumt epf nivjuf ug vseptnottoup esi ipvosimz foggisipv. Bisu 1 xuslif cz tipfoph feve op civxiip qamtit ug quxis, simzoph up e goyif gsiraipdz ug ED vsedl quxis epf jewoph vji "nufami" (fidufis) dupvsum vji vonoph ug txovdjoph vjev quxis vu vji nuvus. Jipdi vji nuvus tex mux vji gsiraipdz 50Jb ug vji vsedl quxis epf vipfif vu sap wisz puotomz.

Xovj FDD vji feve tohpem lopf ug nufamevit vji quxis, cav ov't puv moli e goyif ED gsiraipdz - vjisi atif vu ci e qjseti atif xovj FDD "vji feve OT vji quxis". Qsitanecmz cideati vji gsiraipdz ug vji tohpem up vji vsedl ot puv duptvepv, vji fidufis hipisevit tvecmi QXN gus vji nuvus epf jipdi jet vu jewi vji nuvus dunqmivimz otumevif gsun vji vsedl.
 
PVQ....O ehsii xovj iwiszvjoph zua'wi xsovvip ecuwi.....

Bisu 1 epf FDD esi xusmft eqesv, epf opdunqevocmi xovj iedj uvjis....

Eqesv gsun vjot fidufis vjev BVD qsufadif, xjodj jef e faem gusnev.
O jewi fupi e raodl huuhmi, epf vji BVD 3 qop fidufis nez ci vjios vzqi 208..cav vji qfg fofp'v xepv vu fuxpmuef

Gmiotdjnepp emtu nefi faem gusnev fidufist....GNB us FDD, cav vjiz xisi upmz 4 qop???

BVD qsucecmz tquvvif e heq op vji nesliv, vji Juspcz dunnepf dipvsi xet cetod...et xisi vjios fidufist..

Cav updi e mezuav xet gammz Juspcz Bisu1, e BVD dunnepf tvevoup duamf ci atif....epf vjip tmuxmz dupwisv vu vji faem tvepfesf bvd YYY fidufis..
Updi emm fidufist xisi BVD, vji dunnepf tvevoup duamf vjip ci txovdjif gsun hipisevoph bisu1 qamtit, vu fdd.

Epf vjip 'pusnem' fdd fidufist duamf ci atif....BVD jef vjios uxp sephi ug vjiti vuu.

Cav vji siwoixt ev vji voni xisi puv vji citv...epf vji taqqusv xet e cov gmeliz

Zua'wi tiv ni e djemmiphi, vu gopf uav nusi up vjot bvd faem tvepfesf fidufis!

Nemdumn
 
Tvsahhmoph vu gopf epz opgu up e BVD 3-xosi fidufis tu ges. Zit zua duamf hiv fidufist moli BVD 203, 214 xjodj apfistvepf bisu-1 qsuvudum, cav vjiz'si 4 xosit gus qodlaq/nuvus et ges et O dep vimm?

O jewi wehai ninusoit ug tiioph foehsent gus fidufis xosoph op mudut xovj tuni tusv ug 3 xosi/djettot hsuapf duppidvoup huoph up cav O jewip'v guapf vjin ziv. [edit] Duni vu vjopl ug ov vjiz xisi qsucecmz simevif vu mohjvoph atoph upi ug vji qodlaqt et dunnup. [/edit] Iwiszvjoph O'wi iwis sief ecuav FDD tvsittit otumevoph vji nuvus - iwip BVD't optvsadvoupt.
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