Elderly LGB U Class

[WKDOR]

Having some problems with my elderly LGB Zillertalbahn loco.

On blocks with no rail resistance and no load its drawing 1.6 amps at 14v.

I know that the draw should be somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0 amps when new, but have forgotten what is acceptable for elderly examples.

OR is it curtains for this motor? I have read the recent thread on cleaning commutators and can confirm that that is beyond me.

Many Thanks

mike

 

[Philbahn]

Sounds like the motor to me .

 

[ntpntpntp]

Have you made sure the smoke unit is off? It could be that which has developed a near short-circuit, but it does sound like it's probably the motor on it's way out.

You may not feel comfortable with dismantling the motor to give it a thorough clean, but how about removal/replacement of the motor? If you're ok with that then it's worth removing the motor and bench-testing it just to confirm it is indeed the motor and not some binding in the mechanism? Nothing to lose as the motor's got to come out anyway by the sound of it.

Perhaps someone local to you who's done this before would be able service the motor for you? Failing that I'll give it a go if you want to post the motor (or even the wole thing if necessary). I've done a bit of "loco-doctoring" in my time at my old club's exhibition, and I did strip down and sort out a friend's old U class recently. PM me if I can be of help.

 

[WKDOR]

Many Thanks to you both.

Yes the smoker is permanently disconnected. I don't see any binding, it runs smoothly but slowly.

I've been in that gearbox once before, what a nightmare, so I could probably replace the motor. I understand that if I use the current replacement 62201 motor I don't have to worry about losing/reseating the two ball bearings - is that right?

Thank you Nick for your very kind offer I'll get back to you shortly if I may.

Mike

 

[Neil Robinson]

I've been in that gearbox once before, what a nightmare, so I could probably replace the motor. I understand that if I use the current replacement 62201 motor I don't have to worry about losing/reseating the two ball bearings - is that right?

Read the relevant paragraph roughly in the middle of these instructions.
http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_pr...65C797660D5FF8525696C0072E377/$FILE/62xxx.pdf < Link To http://www.champex-linden...72E377/$FILE/62xxx.pdf
If you go for a modern replacement motor I suggest you retain the original motor and both ball bearings.
That way you can get the original looked at and probably reconditioned, thereby getting a good spare for little cost.

 

[CoggesRailway]

Hi there. I have disasembled and reassembled the gearbox succesfully that loco with clamshell gearbox. You said it was a nightmare so thought you might find this tip a help- i took photos of the motion on each side, and it helped alot when it went back together. Not so much the way it assembles but the precise position of the motion relative to each side. Also is the actual performance awful? If it pulls a train slowly why not just use it till it fails? Of course there mayb a reason but i dont know one.

 

[jimmytrains_0]

please forgive me for the following statement.
DON'T Touch Motor in the first instance.
Use a cotton bud (babybud or similar) Find your smoke oil (LGB Version) wet with smoke oil only and each and every wheel (powered ones) both sides. with a little bit of play in your loco contiune this process and leave to dry. As a cotton bud gets dirty get a new one.

My Zillertal No.2 had similar and it scared me to read the previous threads.
Also in your post your state 14Volts not a LGB controller, maybe playmobil?

Thanks Andy

 

[WKDOR]

Many Thanks Neil, I was hoping you might see this. You were very helpful when I first got this loco and had similar problems back in the GSM days and then again in 2010. I hadn't seen the official LGB document before, so that's very helpful (thank you again!).

Thanks for the Tip Cogges. My most valued posession is my set of photos of the valve-gear of this very loco for re-assembly purposes! Its even labelled:

"This is how it should be per GSC experts"

I have no problem with slow running but I would welcome a view on just how bad this amps draw is - for a very elderly one.

Thanks too Andy. This one's battery powered so I don't need to worry about pickups (long since removed). Hence the 14v its what I could package on the cab floor.

mike

 

[Neil Robinson]

I have no problem with slow running but I would welcome a view on just how bad this amps draw is - for a very elderly one.
mike

In my experience an LGB motor running light when removed from the loco is between 0.1 and 0.15 Amps.
Early LGB starter set power supplies were only rated at 0.5A and could cope with the early U class locos but maybe struggled slightly with smoke fitted examples (it was optional in those days and could easily be switched off).
On this basis I would suggest 0.75A max. acceptable when pulling a fair train with the smoke working but no coach lighting.
As you are running battery power the coach lighting shouldn't be a consideration in your case.

 

[jimmytrains_0]

As we now know its battery operated 14v is like a playmobil early controller it has only 2+ volts above the loco starting voltage. LGB starts at 12v and goes to 24V (20v -22v older models), The fact is your loco has trouble with is the pull away and as in a car, your battery terminals need cleaning or a change of battery. The battery may not hold the full14V. Also an a fibre pen on the connectors, will liven the intial pull on the juice available.

I have further enquiries for anyone who knows if a "load" would lose enough energy in your battery to go under 12volts that engine would give you these problems.

I remember an early rule but for llighting an early LGB loco from its pulg pins, you loss 2.5 volts per coach light. and there was a booster track connecter which could aid the power loss per an amount of track operating.

 

[WKDOR]

Many Thanks again Neil.

So should I take it that running on blocks with the valve gear on but no other load drawing 1.6 amps at 14v is abnormal and needs fixing i.e. replacement or repair of motor?

Thanks again Andy. The 14v is shorthand for 12 x 1.2V = 14.4v nominal that overcharges to about 16.6V, so there's no shortage of volts. The battery holds the charge well.

mike

 

[Neil Robinson]

So should I take it that running on blocks with the valve gear on but no other load drawing 1.6 amps at 14v is abnormal and needs fixing i.e. replacement or repair of motor?

If it were mine I wouldn't use it until I'd examined and tested the motor after removal from the loco.

 

[WKDOR]

And the answer is ....................

With the motor removed at about 15v it is indeed drawing 1.05A. Please could I ask our resident electrical engineers to give their opinion? Is it worth trying to repair or is it Bite on the replacement motor time?

As advised previously this is an early 2071D, German history unknown but has run OK for last few years.

At the time of posting I'm still looking for a second ball bearing! If I can't find it can you also please remind me what size it is supposed to be and where they can be sourced.

Very Many Thanks again to all,


mike

 

[KeithT]

The ball-bearing is 2mm. I just bought the minimum pack of 10 cos i needed one!
PM me if you want a couple. FOC obviously.

 

[Neil Robinson]

With the motor removed at about 15v it is indeed drawing 1.05A. Please could I ask our resident electrical engineers to give their opinion?

That's about ten times what it should be drawing

Is it worth trying to repair or is it Bite on the replacement motor time?

Dismantle and clean it. If you haven't got a specialist solvent Industrial Alcohol, IPA (Iso Propyl Alcohol) or even Gin will do! I think it will be an early motor so you won't have to remove the worm. If you don't feel confident send it to someone who is. You've got nothing to loose the motor is U/S at present.

At the time of posting I'm still looking for a second ball bearing! If I can't find it can you also please remind me what size it is supposed to be and where they can be sourced.

Try a PM to Keith T, last I heard he was going to send off for one so would have had 19 spares!
Edit, Keith answered whilst I was replying, and I exaggerated!

 

[Zerogee]

I've been in that gearbox once before, what a nightmare, so I could probably replace the motor. I understand that if I use the current replacement 62201 motor I don't have to worry about losing/reseating the two ball bearings - is that right?

Read the relevant paragraph roughly in the middle of these instructions.
http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_pr...65C797660D5FF8525696C0072E377/$FILE/62xxx.pdf < Link To http://www.champex-linden...72E377/$FILE/62xxx.pdf
If you go for a modern replacement motor I suggest you retain the original motor and both ball bearings.
That way you can get the original looked at and probably reconditioned, thereby getting a good spare for little cost.

Removing and replacing the motor on an old-style U class is actually pretty easy, much more so than other old clamshell-gearbox locos of the same vintage - because you don't have to do anything except (after removing the body of course) unscrew the black cover plate from the top of the chassis and simply lift the motor out. Getting at the motor on an old Stainz requires removal of the wheels and motion on at least one side, but with the U you can leave everything as it is and the motor just lifts out of the top. Just be careful that when you drop the motor (new or old) back in place that you seat it correctly and that both worms mesh well with their gears, with front and rear drivers lined up - at that stage it's possible to get either the front or rear gear a tooth or so out of synch because of the amount of free play in the motion.
The pic here should show how easy the motor access is, in this case on an old metal-motion green Eurovapor 2073:

Hope that helps a bit?

Jon.

 

[themole]

A tip in removing the ones with the ball bearings each end of the drive shaft, dis assemble in a plastic bag you don't loose the ball bearings! Alyn

 

[KeithT]

With the motor removed at about 15v it is indeed drawing 1.05A. Please could I ask our resident electrical engineers to give their opinion?

That's about ten times what it should be drawing

Is it worth trying to repair or is it Bite on the replacement motor time?

Dismantle and clean it. If you haven't got a specialist solvent Industrial Alcohol, IPA (Iso Propyl Alcohol) or even Gin will do! I think it will be an early motor so you won't have to remove the worm. If you don't feel confident send it to someone who is. You've got nothing to loose the motor is U/S at present.

At the time of posting I'm still looking for a second ball bearing! If I can't find it can you also please remind me what size it is supposed to be and where they can be sourced.

Try a PM to Keith T, last I heard he was going to send off for one so would have had 19 spares!
Edit, Keith answered whilst I was replying, and I exaggerated!

Still looking for a good home for the remaining 7 ball bearings.

 

[funandtrains]

A tip in removing the ones with the ball bearings each end of the drive shaft, dis assemble in a plastic bag you don't loose the ball bearings! Alyn

If you replace with a modern LGB motor you should through away the ball bearings as per LGB service instructions!