ESU #54640 LokPilot XL V4.0 Multiprotocol MM/DCC Driving Decoder

LGB333

LGB333

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HI DCC Decoder Experts! I need some help on the CV programming of this decoder for DC/Analog power operations. I've installed it as a replacement for the "el cheapo" factory circuit board into an LGB 20211.1 Stainz Steamer. It works great in DCC/Digital mode but my customer uses Analog power. At low voltage speed I get jerky movements in both directions. I've set the Motor settings using my LokProgrammer to "Linear" and "Buhler" motor like I have for the ESU 5 XL DCC Sound Decoders I've installed. I've also played around with various settings for CV2, CV3 and CV4 and still get the jerky movement at low speed. Can any suggest other adjustments to the CV settings to eliminate the jerky movement in DC/Analog operations?

Thanks!

Tom
 
I don't know the LokPilot but Massoth have the option of enabling or disabling back EMF in analog mode. The symptoms sound like back EMF in operation. If you can try turning it off and upping the starting voltage CV2 to compensate.
 
idlemarvel said:
I don't know the LokPilot but Massoth have the option of enabling or disabling back EMF in analog mode. The symptoms sound like back EMF in operation. If you can try turning it off and upping the starting voltage CV2 to compensate.
Click to expand...

Hi and thanks for your comments. I did try disabliing the EMF feature on the LokProgrammer but still got the jerky movement, albiet less. I did try upping the CV2 starting voltage various settings but may play around with it further. Last night I also sent a message to ESU LLC USA Technical Department seeking their advice, too. I'll let everyone know their response.
 
Old-school first...

Have you cleaned the tyres, and the backs of the wheels, where the carbon-brushes contact? - The back don't have to be back-to-metal, but a lint-free cloth, and IPA, whilst the lok is running cradled in your lap..

PhilP.
 
PhilP said:
Old-school first...

Have you cleaned the tyres, and the backs of the wheels, where the carbon-brushes contact? - The back don't have to be back-to-metal, but a lint-free cloth, and IPA, whilst the lok is running cradled in your lap..

PhilP.
Click to expand...
Criminal waste of beer.
 
Have you tried the "Auto Tune" functionality so that the decoder learns characteristics of the motor?
 
I'd already had refurbished the entire motor block, gears, wheels, carbon brushes, so that's not the issue with the jerky motor movement. Also, I mentioned in my posting that the locomotive/motor operates super in DCC mode. But I did finally solve the Analog/DC operating jerky movement which I'll post in response to muns' suggestion about the "Auto Tune."
 
muns said:
Have you tried the "Auto Tune" functionality so that the decoder learns characteristics of the motor?
Click to expand...
Muns - Thanks for your suggestion which is what the ESU USA Tech suggested too. Here's the full scoop:

But I finally did solve the jerky problem this morning after discussing it with ESU's Technical Staff yesterday. The LGB Stainz' Buhler motor was not on the list of motors in the ESU User Manual for setting the Reference Voltage, so I used the decoder's Default Standard Values which didn't solve the jerky movement. The ESU tech said to use the decoder's Automatic Motor Calibration feature: Place the locomotive on a long piece of track, Set CV54=0, then press F1 and the locomotive will start running at full speed for about 1.5 seconds and then stop........I used my ESU LokProgrammer with the locomotive placed on my Massoth Roller Wheels. The load compensation factors will then be automatically set in CVs 51, 52, 53, 54 and 55. Since I still got the jerky movement, the tech said to next check the Analog Settings in the LokProgrammer which I played around with.......still jerky trying various adjustments. So finally this morning, I reset CV2, CV3, CV4, and CV5 back to the Default settings listed in the Manual, and Bingo, the little Stainz now runs smoothly on DC/Analog!

Wow, what an experience with fine tuning these great ESU decoders to operate on Analog......I'll be better prepared to deal with this next time!!! And I certainly needed to sort out these settings for this LGB Stainz so I can easily do it for my future LGB locomotive customers who only use Analog power. And as Ron Gibson, the now retired LGB/Marklin USA Representative, told me about three years ago that 80% of large scale hobbyists in the USA still only use Anlalog power for their locomotives/layouts. Those of us that use DCC amount to about 15%, with the remaining 5% battery power. I wonder if the DCC large scale community has grown any since then.........anybody know?

Tom
 
I'm happy you solved it, although it makes me never want to se an ESU decoder.

CVs 2-5 should not affect BEMF at all, or be able to cause jerky motion in any decoder.

So, the BEMF tuning did not solve the issue, which is no surprise since you stated earlier that you turned BEMF off and it made no diffrerence.

So how in the world can the start voltage, the top voltage and momentum cause an issue?

All I can surmise is that there is a combination of these that can make an ESU nuts... and that is BAD... this should not be possible.

Did you by any chance read back these values before? It sounds like poor programming (firmware program) in the decoder, because in no stretch of the imagination should this cause an issue with a motor. You could make it too slow, too fast, or too slow to change speeds, but not jerky motion.

Greg
 
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