Geabox drive failures on sparkies

[Woderwick]

Read a lot of moans about certain manufactures' (note plural) drive chains and it makes me ask:

"How often do you lube your locos, with what and where abouts on the loco?" For example, does any one with a Shay do a complete lube job on the loco after 10 hours of running, as per the manual?

Maybe we can also put to bed some potentially damaging practices, like using 3 in 1 on gear trains.
Does the old grease need cleaning off and replacing, or do you just leave in and slap more ghee on it?

I wonder how much lubing is neglected.

 

[ped]

Afternoon all,The cheapest loco i have is a Bachmann 4-6-0 Bachmann Brothers Circus Train,When it arrived i striped it down throughlly cleaned it and re-greased and oiled it following Bachmans instructions,since then i have oiled & greased once a year at start of running season(about march)once or twice during running time i will oil wheel bearings & side rods,i use L.G.B oil & grease,This loco has been running now for four years and i have had no problems at all. It seems to me that if you show your loco a little care it will repay you by giving you a lot of pleasure. I have read time & time again about how poor these loco's are but after four years of running i certainly have no complaints.

 

[The Devonian]

I recall, when I first started out in our hobby, that magazines such as Garden Railways/Rail, Forum posts and above all by reading the manufacturers information leaflets the warnings about loco lubrication - lack of it or far too much - were greatly emphasized.

I got the feeling that a model loco was more akin to a clock than a motor car.  

 

[nicebutdim]

Ensure any oils or gear grease are safe for the application. There is never a need for wd40 or 3in1 to come near any part of a model railway, NEVER!! They quickly degrade and melt the plastic of gears, point motors, valve linkages etc. I use LGB's fluids for everything, but there are others, and on gears only a small amount is required. Too much kills gears as much as none at all.

 

[mike]

never lubed a loco yet...

 

[LTfan]

There was a post on the old forum about 3-in-1 leaving a lacquer-like (sticky) deposit when it dried out.

Any body recall the post?

Cheers

David

 

[chris m01]

Bachmann seem to suggest oiling everything every time you use it which must be over the top. My 2-6-0 has only been oiled a few times and is fine. Shame the wiring between the cab and the tender isn't more robust. It will be in the shops for yet another repair this winter.

I tend to give all my locos a service during the late winter months. That is after I have run them in the snow and ready for Spring.

On the USAT locos I take the bogies apart, clean the pick up wires and clean and re-grease the axle ends using USAT's own conductive grease. This servicing gives me nice smooth running all year. I may add a little more white grease if it has all disappered but thi is very rare. USAT recommend regreasing the gears every 50 hours of running - that s a fair bit of use.

I will only take an Aristo bogie apart if the pick ups show signs of being dirty or needing to be re-set. I have yet to regrease any gears but then they are much lower milage than my USAT locos.

I don't own any LGB or Piko items.

So far I have found the need to regrease is very low but the need to keep everything clean is high. I always consult the manufacturer's guide especially with regard to type of lubricant but follow it sensibly rather than religously.

 

[JRinTawa]

.....I got the feeling that a model loco was more akin to a clock than a motor car.

I like that ainalagee


I try an lubricate my stock modestly twice a year, with my Bachmann Climax the one that needs a bit of time an patience to do properly. Try and give rolling stock as well as locos a quick once over, sometimes not much if any thing needs doing, but a pleasant way to spend a rainy afternoon.


LGB grease and light oils intended for models only!

 

[spike]

Having dealt with industrial gearboxes for over 30 years this is what I believe.

Never overfill any oiled gearbox, always fill to the level hole, don't block the breather and use recommended
lube.

Pay particular attention to worm boxes.
As these use a sliding action they generate more heat and need careful attention to last.
You will notice most worm wheels are of a softer material ie
brass, bronze, plastic and even fibre board.........this is the sacrificial bit.

Because the worm squeezes the lube out of contact when sliding you need a more viscous lube
than a spurgear box and the worm needs to pickup a bit more lube next time around.

In our models put enough grease around the worm/wheel so it looks like it's touching but don't
pack it in tight......if you do you will get more drag.

Happy lubing

 

[hagen]

Too much lube will kill you
Just as sure as none at all

 

[stockers]

regreasing the gears every 50 hours of running - that s a fair bit of use.

Not here its not. I regularly run a train all day - maybe 6 to 8 hours. thats about a weeks worth of running. I dont run every day but the 50 would soon be up. I run mainly LGB and only ever lube if the top comes off for some other reason - like fitting decoders or sound.

 

[Montblanc]

Bachmann locomotives are especially subject to gearbox failures. I paid to know that? actually I paid the price of a Barry's Big Trains replacement drive for my Bachmann Annie. I came to this excellent (but pricey) solution after two gearbox failures in one year, under no particular intense use.
On the US forums, the general opinion is say it's a matter of luck : you can have a Bachmann loco working fine year after years in heavy duty? or the gear can melt after a few hours. As for lubrification, Barry recommends to do it about every 100 hours, but very sparingly, and NEVER run dry.

Jean-Pierre

 

[Neil Robinson]

There's an old saying. 3 in 1 ..the clock repairers best friend.
It really clogs the works!

Presumably this infers that clock oil would be a suitable lubricant for model locos.

 

[Eaglecliff]

'Course, if [in the UK] you only get a US-format VHS tape with the loco, or buy second-hand and get no instructions at all... having said that, there is quite a helpful website which shows you how to lube a Bachmann 4-6-0 , and Garden Rail has occasional on how to deal with new releases. Just Google...

 

[bobg]

There's an old saying. 3 in 1 ..the clock repairers best friend.
It really clogs the works!

Presumably this infers that clock oil would be a suitable lubricant for model locos.

I've tried it on rolling stock axles and found it too light. It's not normally subjected to shock loadings (rail joints etc.) in a clock, though some of the static loads can get quite high in a powertain. I don't have any electric locos to try it on but would think there is more suitable oils available.

Don't count the cost, buy quality. Good oil is good for lubricating, cheap oil is good for wearing things out.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Yerst

In my long (approx 4 years ) experience of garden railways I have suffered from both under and over lubrication - and we are talking about the locos.

Axle bearings can be a bit troublesome when, as in some of the early Bachmann mechanisms, the bearings also carry the current. I [STRIKE]knackered[/STRIKE] wore out a Bachmannesque chassis after 4 real 1:1 miles through lack of electrolube on the axle bearings - had to re-chassis the beast.

As for gearboxes, and gear trains, I haven't [STRIKE]knackered[/STRIKE] wrecked one yet. I use the Hob-e-lube set of stuff, and tend to garm nylon worm wheels up with the white grease. Brass worms and gears seem to be happier with light oil - but ABC insisted that it must be a synthetic oil. (Don't know what WD40 is, but I can't stand the pong.) but the Hob-e-lube ultra lite oil is fine, and the ABC gear train in my 2-6-2 is as sweet as a nut.

Lubed Fat Connie according to Mr Bachmann's instructions when new, and that seems to run quietly enough still.

I healthily overlubed the Ariso 8-coupled C16 block in my 2-8-2 ( that replaced the worn out Bachmannesque chassis) and had to strip that down completely over winter, and clean it off and start from scratch with a bit of light oiling (electrolube) on the axle ball races, but again, garmed the nylon worms with white grease.

Bachmann Mining Mogul - ditto

Don't know much about the LGB stuff but I think there's a lot more plastic involved, so the needs will be very different.

But where's the fun if you can't pull something apart, try to look intelligent with a bit of oil or grease, and then put it back together again?

 

[spike]

But where's the fun if you can't pull something apart, try to look intelligent with a bit of oil or grease, and then put it back together again?

I once helped a mate take apart the clutch/gearbox on a Honda C90.
Both of us looking very intelligent and assuring anybody who came near, it
would be ok and no problem.

After what we thought was final assembly I noticed we had about six bits left.
Could'nt fathom out where the heck they came from.......mate says "I ain't taking
it back apart" and preceded to use for another six months.

I like intelligent

 

[mike]

But where's the fun if you can't pull something apart, try to look intelligent with a bit of oil or grease, and then put it back together again?

I once helped a mate take apart the clutch/gearbox on a Honda C90.
Both of us looking very intelligent and assuring anybody who came near, it
would be ok and no problem.

After what we thought was final assembly I noticed we had about six bits left.
Could'nt fathom out where the heck they came from.......mate says "I ain't taking
it back apart" and preceded to use for another six months.

I like intelligent

its a well know intelligent fact, all things are built with redundant/spare parts included...
why elase would the always be a few screws /bolts left over when building flat pack furnture..

 

[Eaglecliff]

Reminds me of the story of the economical husband who drive his wife mad by insisting on taking various domestic appliances apart when they coughed a bit, generally with disastrous results, instead of getting a proper man in. She cured him by keeping a clandestine supply of miscellaneous sprockets, springs, screws, humgrummits and widgets and slipping a few into the wreckage so they were always left over when he had reassembled the offending item. It worked, apparently.

 

[New Haven Neil]

Couldn't agree more about not using 3-in-1 it's awful stuff. Funny though, how I was shot down for saying this a few years ago, now folk seem to agree!!

It ruins soft plastics, like old plastic wheels, by making them swell and split. I have a collection of old triang stuff (re-living childhood!) and if I see split wheels on something I buy, you can ususally smell the 3 in 1!! It ruined a few of mine as a kid until Dad explained about oils (he was a Chief Engineer at sea).

WD40 - is duck oil, apparently!