Hopefully simple non railway electric lights question

[voodoopenguin]

Sort of railway related as it's the lighting in my railway shed. At the moment I am using a 120cm LED strip light that I put up as a replacement for an old type fluorescent tube light. Very pleased with it but would like more light along the length of the shed so I have two more. To begin with all three will be fitted to a 13A plug and powered from a socket so the question is do I link them in parallel or series? My thought is parallel but would like confirmation. Pictures show the lights and hopefully some useful detail.






Thanks

Paul

 

[PhilP]

You wire them in parallel..

Theoretically, you could wire them in series, but as we don't know what they would be putting in the circuit, I would suggest not.

PhilP

 

[JimmyB]

I have some that look identical, and are wired in parallel, have been for a number of years and no issues.

 

[voodoopenguin]

Thank you for the responses, a job for the weekend I think.

Paul

 

[Rhinochugger]

Thank you for the responses, a job for the weekend I think.

Paul

Ah, just seen that you're going to plug them into a 13 amp socket.

All very naughty - you should wire them in a ring circuit to the lighting MCB in your shed CCU.

Insurance companies could take a dim view (s'cuse the pun) of a shed that is permanently connected but does not comply with IEE regs.

P Paul M could advise I expect.

 

[grizzmo]

Ah, just seen that you're going to plug them into a 13 amp socket.

All very naughty - you should wire them in a ring circuit to the lighting MCB in your s

As a Australian electrician I thought you guys used the ring system on final subcircuits for voltage drop reasons ? Would 3 led lights on a plug in lead count ? Don't you guys have ready made decorative plug in festoon lighting seems to me to be the same thing to me that voodoopenguin would be doing with the leds . Not trying to start a argument , just as a electrician these sort of things interest me.

 

[Rhinochugger]

As a Australian electrician I thought you guys used the ring system on final subcircuits for voltage drop reasons ? Would 3 led lights on a plug in lead count ? Don't you guys have ready made decorative plug in festoon lighting seems to me to be the same thing to me that voodoopenguin would be doing with the leds . Not trying to start a argument , just as a electrician these sort of things interest me.

Yep, strictly speaking they should be wired in a ring, but this is a shed, and we don't have any ready made systems.

I thought a bit more about it after I'd gone to bed, mulling over voodoopenguin original question.

Inside the lamp there will be a connector block with wires to the LED control. On a ring system, you loop in two wires on the apposite side of the connector, treating +ve and -ve (and earth) in the same manner. The two wires going into the same side of the connector are the loop in from the supply and the loop out to continue the ring - if you don't return the ring to the board, it is essentially a parallel wired solution.

I have only two lamps, so didn't return the ring, but I made it slightly more complicated with two-way switching, as I wanted a switch by each door

 

[grizzmo]

Yep, strictly speaking they should be wired in a ring, but this is a shed, and we don't have any ready made systems.

I thought a bit more about it after I'd gone to bed, mulling over voodoopenguin original question.

Inside the lamp there will be a connector block with wires to the LED control. On a ring system, you loop in two wires on the apposite side of the connector, treating +ve and -ve (and earth) in the same manner. The two wires going into the same side of the connector are the loop in from the supply and the loop out to continue the ring - if you don't return the ring to the board, it is essentially a parallel wired solution.

I have only two lamps, so didn't return the ring, but I made it slightly more complicated with two-way switching, as I wanted a switch by each door

Yeah parallel circuits are how we wire here ,in and out to the next and so on to the last which is just in. Two way switching is great very convenient in many situations, over here we have a intermediate switch that you can put in between the other switches , it crosses the straps ,to take it a step further. Sorry Voodoopenguin this is all of no use to you, good luck with the install.

 

[Gizzy]

As a Australian electrician I thought you guys used the ring system on final subcircuits for voltage drop reasons ? Would 3 led lights on a plug in lead count ? Don't you guys have ready made decorative plug in festoon lighting seems to me to be the same thing to me that voodoopenguin would be doing with the leds . Not trying to start a argument , just as a electrician these sort of things interest me.

The ring system was brought in to save copper after the wars.

We do use it in the UK (but not Ireland who use radial)

 

[voodoopenguin]

Sorry Voodoopenguin this is all of no use to you, good luck with the install.

No problem, it's all very interesting and informative. At present all powered items come from a feed from the garage next to the shed but once I have the worktops, shelves and storage finished then a professional system will be done. I take note of all power requirements and make sure the total is nowhere near the limit. When I'm not present the system is unplugged.

Paul

 

[Paul M]

Ah, just seen that you're going to plug them into a 13 amp socket.

All very naughty - you should wire them in a ring circuit to the lighting MCB in your shed CCU.

Insurance companies could take a dim view (s'cuse the pun) of a shed that is permanently connected but does not comply with IEE regs.

P Paul M could advise I expect.

Well if they're feed via 13a plug and socket, it's the same as a standard lamp. Your shed should be protected by an RCD and MCB, locally. Ideally at the main fuse box end too, to protect the (hopefully) armoured cable running through the garden. Trouble is with that is we all know which end would trip first, don't we?

 

[grizzmo]

Well if they're feed via 13a plug and socket, it's the same as a standard lamp. Your shed should be protected by an RCD and MCB, locally. Ideally at the main fuse box end too, to protect the (hopefully) armoured cable running through the garden. Trouble is with that is we all know which end would trip first, don't we?

Ohm's law states , the furthest away device trips first and faults always happen in biggest PITA locations.

 

[voodoopenguin]

Well if they're feed via 13a plug and socket, it's the same as a standard lamp. Your shed should be protected by an RCD and MCB, locally. Ideally at the main fuse box end too, to protect the (hopefully) armoured cable running through the garden. Trouble is with that is we all know which end would trip first, don't we?

Not sure if it's armoured but it is fairly big, this is the link between the garage and the shed. About 6' off the ground and not a walk way. The garage has its own consumer box with trips. As previously said it is temporary until an electrician is brought in to do it all properly along with a few other jobs we want done.




Paul

 

[Paul M]

Looks like a bit of hose pipe to protect what is probably twin and earth cable. No problem with that, as you're not likely to shove a fork through it

 

[Rhinochugger]

Well if they're feed via 13a plug and socket, it's the same as a standard lamp. Your shed should be protected by an RCD and MCB, locally. Ideally at the main fuse box end too, to protect the (hopefully) armoured cable running through the garden. Trouble is with that is we all know which end would trip first, don't we?

Yep, the question is, would you wire three standard lamps from one socket? Probably not. Bur is that just a question of aesthetics rather than electrical safety?

In theory, three LED striplights are minimal load, and wouldn't trouble a 13amp socket. On the other side of the coin, you're working with fixed appliances, not portable, and wiring fixed appliances as portable isn't frightfully popular under IEE regs (now Part P of the Building Regs)

While a shed doesn't come under Building Regs, as soon as you connect it to a permanent supply, Part P comes into play.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Not sure if it's armoured but it is fairly big, this is the link between the garage and the shed. About 6' off the ground and not a walk way. The garage has its own consumer box with trips. As previously said it is temporary until an electrician is brought in to do it all properly along with a few other jobs we want done.

View attachment 334806


Paul

An electrician would want that to be properly fixed including some sort of support (catenary or tray).

There is a type of cable, and I always forget its name, that has an outer sheath that is bird proof but it isn't as difficult to work with, or expensive, as armoured.

 

[Rhinochugger]

The ring system was brought in to save copper after the wars.

It also makes use of the theory of diversity - not the dance group - and the general principle of the National Grid, of bringing a feed in from both ends.

Just like the WWNR

 

[voodoopenguin]

While a shed doesn't come under Building Regs, as soon as you connect it to a permanent supply, Part P comes into play.

So at the moment there is no problem as everything comes in from a plug in socket in the garage that I unplug when I'm not in the shed. I am sure the professional will tell me what needs to be done when I ask them to make it permanent.

Paul

 

[Rhinochugger]

So at the moment there is no problem as everything comes in from a plug in socket in the garage that I unplug when I'm not in the shed. I am sure the professional will tell me what needs to be done when I ask them to make it permanent.

Paul

Do you have any power sockets in da shed?

 

[voodoopenguin]

Do you have any power sockets in da shed?

The line into the shed is a sort of extension lead, plugged in the garage with two sockets at the shed end. The cable for it is this.



Paul

Paul