How far apart is safe??

The mechanic

The mechanic

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Hello everyone, a happy New Year to you all.

After three years of hard graft, I am nearing the point where I am ready to start track laying on the Sparrows End line (when the weather improves) but would like to "pick a few brains" before so-doing - just to make sure!.... Hence the "pre-amble".

My plan involves a concentric twin 45mm gauge track around the garden...... This isn't planned as "double track"... More like two separate, independent, bi-directional running lines. My plan has a minimum radius of 6ft on the inside line and a fair bit more on the outer one (except for the LGB rad3 points which are used for passing loops and cross-overs - the "main running lines using the straight leg of the point). The main formation was constructed last Summer using reclaimed paving slabs supported on breeze block piers. The garden slopes from top right to bottom left by nearly 2ft. The top of the formation is set dead-level all round the garden with no gradients on the line. There are no tunnels either.

In addition to standard LGB rolling stock, I intend to run 16mm live steam locomotives and stock (including L&M transporter wagons which need a standard gauge 3 loading profile). I also have a small collection of 7/8ths stock which are all 4-wheelers (no bogies) I would also like to run.

During the winter, I am in the process of constructing a 4'6" long girder bridge to span the access path which will be removeable when the railway is not running. I therefore need to know the minimum distance to place the track centres. The bridge is dead straight. Note, the one in the photo was a single track underslung girder which I am reworking to a double track overslung pony girder -hence the top "ties" in the photo, which have since been removed.

I apologise if the above pre-amble is a bit exhaustive just to ask how far apart I should set my track (the "six-foot" as gangers refer to it) but the "potential for disaster" is quite high in this case and I would like to get it right first time really and avoid any extra remedial work.

My initial feelings are around 7" ( 175mm) between centres should be OK, but I would welcome everyone's views on this and whether or not I am in the right "ball-park?".... My longest 16mm scale coaches are Campbeltown and Macrihanish and Welshpool and Llanfair.bogies, Which given the 6'' radius, should easily clear.

I apologise if this subject has been covered in the past, I did check the archives but could only find articles ref vertical height clearance for tunnels and overbridges.

over to you folks!...

DaveIMG_20241103_125311.jpgIMG_20240920_104127.jpg
 
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Hello John,
It's not that I'm antisocial or anything but the garden is only 30 'x 30', my drive will only take two cars and we live in a small cul-de-sac, so I don't think it will be big enough to cater for other users.... I have two Sons who both have decent collections of stock so additional "visitors" would certainly "swamp" the line!

Dave
 
The mechanic said:
Hello everyone, a happy New Year to you all.

After three years of hard graft, I am nearing the point where I am ready to start track laying on the Sparrows End line (when the weather improves) but would like to "pick a few brains" before so-doing - just to make sure!.... Hence the "pre-amble".

My plan involves a concentric twin 45mm gauge track around the garden...... This isn't planned as "double track"... More like two separate, independent, bi-directional running lines. My plan has a minimum radius of 6ft on the inside line and a fair bit more on the outer one (except for the LGB rad3 points which are used for passing loops and cross-overs - the "main running lines using the straight leg of the point). The main formation was constructed last Summer using reclaimed paving slabs supported on breeze block piers. The garden slopes from top right to bottom left by nearly 2ft. The top of the formation is set dead-level all round the garden with no gradients on the line. There are no tunnels either.

In addition to standard LGB rolling stock, I intend to run 16mm live steam locomotives and stock (including L&M transporter wagons which need a standard gauge 3 loading profile). I also have a small collection of 7/8ths stock which are all 4-wheelers (no bogies) I would also like to run.

During the winter, I am in the process of constructing a 4'6" long girder bridge to span the access path which will be removeable when the railway is not running. I therefore need to know the minimum distance to place the track centres. The bridge is dead straight. Note, the one in the photo was a single track underslung girder which I am reworking to a double track overslung pony girder -hence the top "ties" in the photo, which have since been removed.

I apologise if the above pre-amble is a bit exhaustive just to ask how far apart I should set my track (the "six-foot" as gangers refer to it) but the "potential for disaster" is quite high in this case and I would like to get it right first time really and avoid any extra remedial work.

My initial feelings are around 7" ( 175mm) between centres should be OK, but I would welcome everyone's views on this and whether or not I am in the right "ball-park?".... My longest 16mm scale coaches are Campbeltown and Macrihanish and Welshpool and Llanfair.bogies, Which given the 6'' radius, should easily clear.

I apologise if this subject has been covered in the past, I did check the archives but could only find articles ref vertical height clearance for tunnels and overbridges.

over to you folks!...

DaveView attachment 336999View attachment 337000
Click to expand...
The crucial thing in this gauge is the locos that you intend to run. Different manufacturers, and different locos have more or less outswing on curves.

For example, Bachmann's 1:22.5 4-6-0 has a large outswing at the front, as does their 1:20.3 Connie. However, if you're staying with LGB locos, the outswing may well be less.

It probably depends on your ambition for live steam - if you're thinking of the Leek & Manifold 2-6-4 loco, I understand that also had a substantial outswing.
 
Some good points there and yes I do have a Roundhouse L&M Kitson that tends to "wag its tail" a bit on sharp curves. I had hoped that my
6' + curves would limit this a bit?

As a OO modeller upgraded to G/16mm, I have never had to give this issue much thought as it was mainly done for me with the constant scale/gauge ratio.

I might try mocking up some LGB curves and measuring the overhang on different rads.... See what happens.

I also have a Snailbeach Baldwin which also has a bit of a front-end overhang so will probably do the same.

...... And I thought it was all going to be about bogie coaches and foot steps...... How wrong was I?

Dave
 
The mechanic said:
My initial feelings are around 7" ( 175mm) between centres should be OK,
Click to expand...
good feeling.

when i needed to know, i found the distance of 160 mm on straights mentioned in the LGB documentations.
but that was in the 1970ies. while for me that has served all these years on different layouts, it might be, that they later had bigger rolling stock, that needs more space.
(160 mm works with LGB-stainzes, playmobil and Bachmann big haulers)
 
The “Kinetic Envelope”which is what we are talking about is a space both inside and outside on curves. Long coaches will have an overhang inside the curve. One of your best bets may be to setup a 1/2 curve with some old say lining or other paper under it. Stick various items of stock on it and make a mark at the outside and inside of the outer ends and muddle. Try to make the marks in the same place on a line marked 90 degrees on the paper following the line of a sleeper. Eventually you will come to a maximum envelope which may surprise you at it’s size, though I expect your 7 inches would be met.

Don't forget height as well, this can be trickier to work out but similar remembering to ensure on some track. A small spirit 6” level will be your friend for making marks here.
 
From memory, I believe if you arrange 2 R3 points in a crossover configuration, then track to track centres are 185 mm.

Thus, your '6 ft' would be about 140 mm. You could increase the track centres by adding short lengths of track between the points....
 
If your bridge is straight with a straight lead in at either end, then 7 inches centre to centre is sufficient. The passing loop on my line is a little less than that. We have open days, so a large variety of stock is run. Clearance has never been an issue, even with wider locos like the Roundhouse VoR.
 
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