Identifying a particular Stainz No.1....?

Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
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Hi all,
This is probably a bit premature, as it refers to something I've bought on evilBay that hasn't even arrived yet, but I'm very curious and wondering if the collective wisdom of the ListMind can answer it.....

I've just won an old(ish) Stainz, nothing unusual about that, except that it appears to have a BLACK cab, along with the usual black boiler and red chassis. It is a "No.1" cab, with the "1" and the "LGB" plate in gold relief, it has a straight stack (no spark arrester), it has skates and the large square ventilator on the cab roof. From what little I can see in the pic on eBay, it has an early-ish coupling hook. It's definitely a normal tank-loco Stainz, not one of the ones that came with a tender and open cab back. The seller is certain that the cab is NOT a repaint, though obviously I can't be 100% on this till I actually have it my hands.

Now, looking through my Greenberg's Guide (which is a 1989 edition) I can't find ANY reference to any Stainz version with a No.1 cab painted black - only the dark green or chocolate brown ones, plus a few odd special set editions which all have special paint schemes and logos.
So, anyone have any idea what I have bought? Is it a production option from later than 1989 (hence not in my Greenberg's)? Is it an oddity, a hybrid or maybe a very good repaint after all?

Ta in advance! :D

Jon.
 
Neil Robinson said:
Hi
Take a look at the German site below.

http://www.lgb-much.de/index1.html

If you open the pdf document for LGB-Historie Die Jahre 1970 und 1971 there are illustrations of a catalogue and a layout with locos that may match yours.
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Thanks Neil, very interesting site I wasn't aware of before - but which page of the 1970/71 history are you referring to? I still can't see a black No.1 cab anywhere, the only all-black one is the No.4, and those are REALLY early ones with the round roof vent and no skates.....

When did the square roof vent come in - sometime around 1973/74-ish?
 
This the one? This has been in my possession for about ten years now and although I got it unused and boxed, I do not know when it was originally purchased. It is model 2010
34ed077f159e4a0a9de4b39ad40f33a3.jpg

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Glengrant said:
This the one? This has been in my possession for about ten years now and although I got it unused and boxed, I do not know when it was originally purchased. It is model 2010
images

images
Click to expand...

That's certainly the correct model, in everything but the cab colour - that's one of the chocolate brown ones, which I'm very familiar with. It is POSSIBLE that that is what I'm getting, and the seller just has poor eyesight (!) - but he swears the cab is black; the one photo on the auction was poorly lit and not clear enough to be sure about the colour - it could even have been one of the very dark green ones, so I messaged the seller to ask before bidding. If anyone wants to take a look and see what they think, the item is here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150476108993&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT < Link To http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/...PageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

If it does prove to be a brown cab after all, that's still fine with me (I had one years back and sold it, have been looking for another at a good price for a while) - guess I'll just have to wait for a few days till the postman delivers it! ;)

Jon.
 
Zerogee said:
Glengrant said:
This the one? This has been in my possession for about ten years now and although I got it unused and boxed, I do not know when it was originally purchased. It is model 2010
5a034794661e430a8051362594320438.jpg

5a034794661e430a8051362594320438.jpg
Click to expand...

That's certainly the correct model, in everything but the cab colour - that's one of the chocolate brown ones, which I'm very familiar with. It is POSSIBLE that that is what I'm getting, and the seller just has poor eyesight (!) - but he swears the cab is black; the one photo on the auction was poorly lit and not clear enough to be sure about the colour - it could even have been one of the very dark green ones, so I messaged the seller to ask before bidding. If anyone wants to take a look and see what they think, the item is here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150476108993&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

If it does prove to be a brown cab after all, that's still fine with me (I had one years back and sold it, have been looking for another at a good price for a while) - guess I'll just have to wait for a few days till the postman delivers it! ;)

Jon.
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Now Jon you got me worried. I have run this engine for years and have always said it was black. Subsequent to your post quoted I just went outside to have another look at it, and I think you are right, it is a very very dark shade of brown, but it is so close to black you can hardly tell the difference. The boiler is def. black, no doubt about that. I would suggest that the e-bay pic is no clearer than mine, and it really looks black. I tell, it ain't Stroudley's Improved Engine Green! Let us know what you find out when it arrives.
5a034794661e430a8051362594320438.jpg


Wait a minnit, just took the engine into the house showed it to the missus, I asked what's the colour of the cab on this engine? Without a moment's hesitation she said "brown". My day is ruined. My black Stainz is not a black Stainz. I am going to lie down in a darkened room, or, as I usually say, it's enough to drive one to drink.
 
I am going to lie down in a darkened room, or, as I usually say, it's enough to drive one to drink.
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Mine's a double.....with ice!

Colour is a very subjective thing. My partner has just sold a car that Vauxhall describe as turquoise. (I don't think so!) In most lights at first glance it was (light) black or dark grey, in others it was slightly blue/black and in others again it had a definite green tinge. A real witness confuser! If you want to call it black feel free mate, you'll get no argument from this direction.




I must say, that cab does look a little brown though.:rolf::rolf::rolf:
 
Willing to bet dollars to Deutche Marks that it is a brown cab, and appears that it is post 1979 version, gold trim and curved hook coupler are the give-aways.

The give-away would be if there are any markings/lettering on the buffer plates.

Regardless, other than a $2 whistle, it appears to be all in tact and should be a good purchase.
 
i too have the black one and very nice it is too,,,, mint,,, thaught it dated from 80s

i think there are black 2s and 4s,,,

but im no expert,,,,
 
Spule 4 said:
Willing to bet dollars to Deutche Marks that it is a brown cab, and appears that it is post 1979 version, gold trim and curved hook coupler are the give-aways.

The give-away would be if there are any markings/lettering on the buffer plates.

Regardless, other than a $2 whistle, it appears to be all in tact and should be a good purchase.
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Yes, that's pretty much what I've been thinking, especially after reading the responses here this morning.... I fully expect to open the box and find that's it's a brown one after all, but that will be fine - provided it's not knackered in the gearbox dept., it will still have been a good purchase at the price. To be honest, I was surprised it didn't go a bit higher on the bids, I know there are a lot of Stainzes around but you mostly see the more recent bright green ex-starter-set ones on eBay. There was a (definitely) black No.4 up a while ago, but I can't recall why I missed out on it - think it maybe went a bit higher than I was prepared to go. You don't see nice examples of the brown or dark green ones all that often.

Jon.
 
wow thats some site in german!
 
The NStLB have here a 1983 brown cab 2010 (cab #1), and a 1972-3 brown cab 2020 (#2).

To me, there is an elegance of the brown cab locos, a very rich-dark brown, nearly black in a lot of lighting situations.

I paid more for these two "Stainz" locos than the "green" others, but they are the only ones that did not get broken for parts or sold off.

So far, I have yet to get a black cab #4 2040....yet being the key word. Waiting for a nice one, many that have come up have been ratty or modified in some manner.

EDIT, a quick google images search for "LGB Stainz" turned up my 2010 nearly at the top, but of MORE interest, was this:

http://www.lgb-much.de/smesse06.htm

Note the "Stainz Line Up"!
 
MYSTERY SOLVED! The Stainz arrived this morning, safe and sound, and it's just been unpacked.....

Yes, the cab IS brown. It's a standard brown-cab, non-smoke 2010. BUT... it's absolutely the DARKEST brown paint on the cab that I've ever seen, like really, really expensive plain chocolate - so dark that yes, in some lighting it might as well be black. Much darker than the one in the photos above, though of course they are in bright sunshine which might make the difference.

It's in lovely order, clean and complete except for the broken whistle that was mentioned in the auction, and one other thing... at some point in its life, it's had the pickup skates removed (I had thought they were there from the picture, but I think I was looking at part of the motion support bracket that was in the way...).
In the experience of folks here, how well does a Stainz run without its skates? Does it stall much, eg: on point frogs? I'm wondering if I should go to the trouble of replacing them (can you easily get the ones for this era still?) or just run it as-is?

If it makes any difference, this will get MTS chipped (and probably sound too, will most likely use a Massoth LS) - any advice or hints on dismantling and installation in a Stainz of this vintage?

Jon.
 
Zerogee said:
Yes, the cab IS brown. It's a standard brown-cab, non-smoke 2010. BUT... it's absolutely the DARKEST brown paint on the cab that I've ever seen, like really, really expensive plain chocolate - so dark that yes, in some lighting it might as well be black. Much darker than the one in the photos above, though of course they are in bright sunshine which might make the difference.

It's in lovely order, clean and complete except for the broken whistle that was mentioned in the auction, and one other thing... at some point in its life, it's had the pickup skates removed (I had thought they were there from the picture, but I think I was looking at part of the motion support bracket that was in the way...).
In the experience of folks here, how well does a Stainz run without its skates? Does it stall much, eg: on point frogs? I'm wondering if I should go to the trouble of replacing them (can you easily get the ones for this era still?) or just run it as-is?

If it makes any difference, this will get MTS chipped (and probably sound too, will most likely use a Massoth LS) - any advice or hints on dismantling and installation in a Stainz of this vintage?

Jon.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, thought as much. The one I showed you also is very very dark brown. I have run a Stainz without pickups, I'm afraid I usually cheat and run double-headed which eliminates the dead frog problems, but I have had no problem getting replacement skates. I also had to get a whistle for one of mine, easy enough in the UK, but it cost me £5.95 from GRS, But I wasn't complaining
 
Zerogee said:
In the experience of folks here, how well does a Stainz run without its skates? Does it stall much, eg: on point frogs? I'm wondering if I should go to the trouble of replacing them (can you easily get the ones for this era still?) or just run it as-is?

If it makes any difference, this will get MTS chipped (and probably sound too, will most likely use a Massoth LS) - any advice or hints on dismantling and installation in a Stainz of this vintage?

Jon.
Click to expand...

I would recommend replacing the skates as one wheel has a traction tyre and therefore pretty useless as a power pickup, leaving only the other wheel and skate on that side to pick up.
Chipping will be time consuming rather than difficult. It'll need a full strip down to modify the 'clam shell' gearbox wiring and to access the inside of the boiler to accommodate the chip.
 
otoh id run it and see-you can always add skates
 
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