Insulated wheels on live steam locos: love them or hate them?

S

Sea Lion

Registered
I'd be very interested to know just how important people regard insulated wheels on their live steam locos.

Do you run track powered locos during the same session as live steam on your railway or would it be simple enough to run steam with the power turned off if you had a favourite steamer that did not have insulated wheels?

Happy steamings,

John
 
Sea Lion said:
I'd be very interested to know just how important people regard insulated wheels on their live steam locos.

Do you run track powered locos during the same session as live steam on your railway or would it be simple enough to run steam with the power turned off if you had a favourite steamer that did not have insulated wheels?

Happy steamings,

John
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I suppose some people must want insulated wheels, but I have never seen this as a requirement on any of the tracks I have ever run on ? whether 32 or 45mm. Be interesting to hear from anyone who does run both track powered and live steam ? but when visiting G scale electric lines, I have found that the owner does not like to have live steam running on his/her tracks because of oil/dirt considerations. Others who run electric locomotives and live steam seem to prefer battery power and R/C.
 
Well, if you have the choice of insulated or uninsulated wheels at no difference in cost when buying a loco, I guess I'd opt for insulated simply because there MIGHT be a time when it was helpful; I don't think there is any downside to having insulated wheels (but then I'm not into live steam, so stand to be corrected if that's wrong!), so it's like many things in life - it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. ;)

Of course, if you don't have the choice without spending more money (eg: you are buying a secondhand steamer with non-insulated wheels, so you'd have to fork out for another wheelset to change to insulated) then that's when you'd have to think it through more carefully and decide whether it is worth it or not (possibly not, bearing Tag's comments in mind).

Jon.
 
Steam and track power - i can think of a couple of lines where i've run steam locos at the same time as electric, both 45mm gauge. All the rest tend to be steam and battery power, (45 and 32mm gauge).
 
Zerogee said:
Well, if you have the choice of insulated or uninsulated wheels at no difference in cost when buying a loco, I guess I'd opt for insulated simply because there MIGHT be a time when it was helpful; I don't think there is any downside to having insulated wheels (but then I'm not into live steam, so stand to be corrected if that's wrong!), so it's like many things in life - it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. ;)

Of course, if you don't have the choice without spending more money (eg: you are buying a secondhand steamer with non-insulated wheels, so you'd have to fork out for another wheelset to change to insulated) then that's when you'd have to think it through more carefully and decide whether it is worth it or not (possibly not, bearing Tag's comments in mind).

Jon.
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Very good pointsJon ? but one wonders whether it is actually cheaper to produce non- insulated and whether nowadays there is much of a call for it. I would certainly think about this very carefully were I a manufacturer because price is nowadays far more important than it was when I started. I wonder if anyone has actually purchased a secondhand live steamer than converted to non insulated?? Perhaps someone on this forum could answer this? Certainly the number of track powered 32mm lines is vanishingly small so it would be on this forum if anywhere where these circumstances could feasibly come about.
 
One disadvantage to Roundhouse's version of insulated wheels is that the plastic bush in the wheel expands to make the wheels tight enough on the axle so that the loco cannot be regauged 32mm to 45mm and vice versa. I have had a couple of locos here where this has happened and have ended up having to hammer the axles through the wheels to get them to shift. Drilling and reaming of the plastic bushes alleviated the problem, but they were still tight and hard to move.
I see from the Roundhouse price list that there is a difference of £2.70 per wheel between insulated (£7.70) and non-insulated (£5.00).
Personally, I would never have insulated wheels if there was a choice not to do so - mainly because I do not trust plastic to run "true".
 
I would always go for insulated wheels as most people I know run a mixture of live steam, battery and track power. It is a good way to run multiple trains without needing DCC. I was also told in the past that insulated wheels also help with R/C as the locos generate less interferance running along the track but that may or may not be true.
 
From my point of view, I would not buy a steam powered loco without insulated wheels.

OK, my live steam roster totals one, but why limit the flexibility?

What's the issue?

Why don't the live steam manufacturers use wheels with non ferrour centres like slaters, Tenmille etc? The resin based centre actually provides for a slightly less harsh ride as well.

Fortunately all Accucraft US live steamers have insulated wheels, so when i win the lottery, it still won't be an issue.

:bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile:
 
Ok I have a question; Surely its not just the wheels need insulating on a live steam loco. Would not the current 'short" via the motion, rods and cylinders?
 
No - provided the wheel centres are insluated, and assuming that the flanges don't touch the frames, everything's OK
 
funandtrains said:
I would always go for insulated wheels as most people I know run a mixture of live steam, battery and track power. It is a good way to run multiple trains without needing DCC. I was also told in the past that insulated wheels also help with R/C as the locos generate less interferance running along the track but that may or may not be true.
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Have not found any difference in times past ? but certainly it would make no difference with 2.4meg. In the US the matter of insulated wheels would be more of an issue because almost everyone starts with track power ? not the case over here. Acucraft, being an Sino-US company insulate all their wheels ? but Roundhouse do not. I therefore have a mixture of insulated and non insulated because I see no reason to pay extra ? and if Accucraft provided a choice I would always go for all metal wheels for the same reason as Tony ? plus saving a few quid for something I don't need.
Certainly it is hard to get a feel for it because in nearly 30 years have never been to line that runs both ? it has always been one or the other ? but your post tells me that your experience is different. I imagine however, that things will remain very much as they are and I am quite happy with that....:-)
 
I have live steam locos with both uninsulated and insulated wheels but running on 45mm often on other peoples tracks insulated is much better. Maybe it is only an issue with Roundhouse locos as my old Merlins are fine with insulated wheels as are Regners, Aster and Accucraft. Maybe it is just because Roundhouse listen more to the members of the 16mm Assoc who run on unpowered 32mm gauge track and the other manufacturers who are more interested in those running on 45mm gauge.
 
Stainzmeister said:
I run DCC but have owned two steamers in the past, and might own one in the future.
For me all rolling stock needs to have insulated wheels.
I have had visitors running live steam too on at least half a dozen occasions whilst the DCC track power was on and other trains were running.

I suppose based on membership numbers of the G Scale Society and the 16mm Group, there are more live steam lines than electrified........but there are an unknown number of Garden railway folk who don't belong to either organisation.

If, for the sake of argument, I had a live steam loco with uninsulated wheels and I turned up at a running day, I would not expect the owner of the line to turn off the track power while I ran my loco. :bigsmile:
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Indeed nor would I! It is only good manners to check the position regarding this and other things. It should always be remembered that (to miss quote a well know garden railfarer), '..it is my railway and if you don't like my rules then bu99er off...' One railway I know is electric only and I would not dream of taking a steamer there ? on the other hand one of his locos would be no good on my line :D.

There are indeed many who don't belong to either organisation and many of them are my readers. I would not worry however ? I cannot see the position changing any time soon. It would not be worth Accucraft's time I suspect to change production methods ? and Roundhouse are not going to change ? just means paying a few extra quid on a Roundhouse loco. I would however prefer all metal wheels on my own Accucraft locomotives.
 
funandtrains said:
I have live steam locos with both uninsulated and insulated wheels but running on 45mm often on other peoples tracks insulated is much better. Maybe it is only an issue with Roundhouse locos as my old Merlins are fine with insulated wheels as are Regners, Aster and Accucraft. Maybe it is just because Roundhouse listen more to the members of the 16mm Assoc who run on unpowered 32mm gauge track and the other manufacturers who are more interested in those running on 45mm gauge.
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Unfortunately my early experience with Merlin wheels just added to my preference for uninsulated. The centres came loose on two of my Merlins and a friend made up some metal wheels for me.... Roundhouse do of course supply insulated wheels ? they are just a bit more expensive... Would be interesting to see what percentage of people opt for the insulated however.
 
Rhinochugger said:
No - provided the wheel centres are insluated, and assuming that the flanges don't touch the frames, everything's OK
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It is sometimes possible to get away with only insulating the wheels on one side of the loco. For example, the Roundhouse "Taliesin" only has two insulated wheels (which are a work of art being a metal centre and a metal tyre separated by a ring of adhesive) on the four-wheel power bogie, with those on the other end of the axles being all-metal.
 
Plastics have improved greatly over the past 25 years and there should be no reason why insulated wheels should not last as well as solid steel if designed and made well; modern cars have many such components.
I didn't have much garden railway equipment left in useable condition after I finished university in the 90s as the Peco track sleepers turned to dust with the slightest touch and most of my 32mm gauge rolling stock had Tenmille wheels where all the plastic centres had shrunk away from the rims which I had bought in th 80s. It made it an easy decision to switch to 45mm gauge 10 years ago as the few LGB items I had from the 80s were as good as new and the prices had then dropped.
 
funandtrains said:
I have live steam locos with both uninsulated and insulated wheels but running on 45mm often on other peoples tracks insulated is much better. Maybe it is only an issue with Roundhouse locos as my old Merlins are fine with insulated wheels as are Regners, Aster and Accucraft. Maybe it is just because Roundhouse listen more to the members of the 16mm Assoc who run on unpowered 32mm gauge track and the other manufacturers who are more interested in those running on 45mm gauge.
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And another reply! :) You will be interested to know that a 'ball park' figure for Roundhouse locos is 20% for insulated wheels. The other side of the coin is that nowadays, most of their larger locomotives are insulated by design...
 
I must admit when I shopped for a live steamer, the minute I saw uninsulated wheels in the specification I simply disregarded that product, so I guess insulated wheels were important to me.

On reflection it probably isn't so important now as I run some loco's with on-board batteries, so an uninsulated live steamer could be run simultaneously with these, and the track power turned off.
 
I run both, but not simultaneously; however, Tag's initial point about steamers spreading oil and grease around is a critical one, and I usually find the need to clean the track after a steam session. One other consideration is that steam operation requires fairly constant supervision of the locomotive which leaves relatively little time for operating an electric service.

GH
 
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