IP Engineering kit - replacement gearbox?

[ge_rik]

Has anyone else encountered problems with IP Engineering gearboxes. I've stripped the gears on two of mine with only minimal / light use. I get the impression the plastic gears used are not really strong enough for the loads to which the models are likely to encounter.

I've tried replacing one set with a Cambrian brass worm wheel / steel worm replacement but it's not a direct fit and my engineering skills are not sufficient to make a reliable gearbox keeping the gears in mesh. I'm growing increasingly frustrated.

Has anyone found a reliable gear / motor replacement for those sold with IP Engineering kits - eg- http://www.ipengineering.co.uk/page61.html

and .....

Rik

 

[Enginehouse]

Try an MFA Como motor/gearbox combi driving a pair of bevel gears to turn the drive train through 90 degrees. Much more power, bags of torque dependant on your chosen gearbox combi and an extremely smooth drive. Motor can be any angle between vertical to horizontal.

I used an MFA 918D30112/1 motor which comes with a very nice baseplate for mounting it. If I remember correctly it's listed as a 12/24v motor but runs happily on 6 Volts and is matched to a 30 to 1 gearbox. I used the bevel gears that are listed for use with that motor as the final drive.

You are not alone with having problems with an IP gearbox. Great learning tool though. Building a decent chassis from scratch is good fun. Stephen at Essel Engineering has all of the interesting bits and will always be happy to advise.

Just bear in mind that an 0-4-0 chassis will always have hauling limitations and the weight of loco and bomb proof power train are critical.

 

[ge_rik]

Try an MFA Como motor/gearbox combi driving a pair of bevel gears to turn the drive train through 90 degrees. Much more power, bags of torque dependant on your chosen gearbox combi and an extremely smooth drive. Motor can be any angle between vertical to horizontal.

I used an MFA 918D30112/1 motor which comes with a very nice baseplate for mounting it. If I remember correctly it's listed as a 12/24v motor but runs happily on 6 Volts and is matched to a 30 to 1 gearbox. I used the bevel gears that are listed for use with that motor as the final drive.

You are not alone with having problems with an IP gearbox. Great learning tool though. Building a decent chassis from scratch is good fun. Stephen at Essel Engineering has all of the interesting bits and will always be happy to advise.

Just bear in mind that an 0-4-0 chassis will always have hauling limitations and the weight of loco and bomb proof power train are critical.

Thanks for the info Roy
I've been in correspondence with ABC gears and also with Slaters to see if they can offer me some sort of alternative. I've looked at Essel and have his motor and bevel gears on my shortlist unless I can get something else sorted out. I'll take a look at MFA como as well.

It looks to me from exchanges on other forums that I am not alone in experiencing problems. A guy on another forum says he's on his fifth set of replacement gears which sort of suggests something ain't right somewhere.

Rik

 

[Rhinochugger]

Rik

I'll give you some more info tomorrow, but I'm playing with etched gearboxes, although most need either 3/16th or 1/4 axles.

Bit short of time now, I'll update tomorrow lunchtime.

 

[ge_rik]

Rik

I'll give you some more info tomorrow, but I'm playing with etched gearboxes, although most need either 3/16th or 1/4 axles.

Bit short of time now, I'll update tomorrow lunchtime.

Great - sounds very intriguing

Rik

 

[trammayo]

I'd forgot about the Como motor combi - I have one driving a saw bench and one in the Paycar I scratchbuilt. Quite decent really. The gears are metal, and the assembly can be swapped with others in the range. They have a 4mm shaft and I used Meccanno for my axle.

Not a good pic, but I mounted the motor and axle using perspex (old number plate). I got the motors and gears from Maplin years ago.

And mounted at 45degrees

 

[ge_rik]

I'd forgot about the Como motor combi - I have one driving a saw bench and one in the Paycar I scratchbuilt. Quite decent really. The gears are metal, and the assembly can be swapped with others in the range. They have a 4mm shaft and I used Meccanno for my axle.
Not a good pic, but I mounted the motor and axle using perspex (old number plate). I got the motors and gears from Maplin years ago.
And mounted at 45degrees

Looks like Como motor/gearbox with bevel gears is the way to go

Thanks chaps

Rik

 

[Rhinochugger]

Life is rarely straightforward - it's often bevelled

Como motor - there are a number of voltage/ratio combinations, and I can't advise on what's best. The drawback that I've found revolves around bevel gears, and that the only ones that i can find are pairs, and with the Como having a 4mm shaft, you need to find a 4mm axle.

ABC gearbox - Rolls Royce and too good for an IP motor.

The big issue is really axle diameter. Essel Engineering do a selection of 3/16" axles, IP use 1/8". If you're not using whizzy cranks, there are other possibilities, if using whizzies, then Essel also have their own cranks (notice how the cash register keeps going kerching).

If you can go with 3/16" axle, then Roxey Mouldings do some 0 gauge gearbox etches with gears for modest money. While you're at it, I'd send the IP motor to outer darkness and invest in a 5-pole Mabuchi 385 from Swift Sixteen for £7.50

Ratios - the IP Mk1 box uses something like 17:1 which is far too low for NiMH batteries. I was advised when I was struggling with my IP chassis in its version 1a guise, that NiMH batteries give better results if the motor is whizzing at high revs, they don't like delivering low down grunt. My 1b version ran on a recycled 35:1 gear set and delivered fine performance, I'm going for 40:1 on version 1d.

I did build a home made gearbox to go with the 35:1 set, by simply bending a 30mm x 3mm aluminium flat bar in a vice to give a squared off 'U' shape. I then drilled all the holes, with a bit of wood stuffed into the 'U' to give rigidity. the axle/worm alighned fine, but the motor mounting holes were slightly out of kilter meaning that the motor and work were slightly out of alignment. It didn't matter and the box worked faultlessly for many many hours. The failure leading to version 1d was linked to wheel/axle diameter rather than the box.

 

[ge_rik]

Life is rarely straightforward - it's often bevelled
Como motor - there are a number of voltage/ratio combinations, and I can't advise on what's best. The drawback that I've found revolves around bevel gears, and that the only ones that i can find are pairs, and with the Como having a 4mm shaft, you need to find a 4mm axle.
ABC gearbox - Rolls Royce and too good for an IP motor.
The big issue is really axle diameter. Essel Engineering do a selection of 3/16" axles, IP use 1/8". If you're not using whizzy cranks, there are other possibilities, if using whizzies, then Essel also have their own cranks (notice how the cash register keeps going kerching).
If you can go with 3/16" axle, then Roxey Mouldings do some 0 gauge gearbox etches with gears for modest money. While you're at it, I'd send the IP motor to outer darkness and invest in a 5-pole Mabuchi 385 from Swift Sixteen for £7.50
Ratios - the IP Mk1 box uses something like 17:1 which is far too low for NiMH batteries. I was advised when I was struggling with my IP chassis in its version 1a guise, that NiMH batteries give better results if the motor is whizzing at high revs, they don't like delivering low down grunt. My 1b version ran on a recycled 35:1 gear set and delivered fine performance, I'm going for 40:1 on version 1d.
I did build a home made gearbox to go with the 35:1 set, by simply bending a 30mm x 3mm aluminium flat bar in a vice to give a squared off 'U' shape. I then drilled all the holes, with a bit of wood stuffed into the 'U' to give rigidity. the axle/worm alighned fine, but the motor mounting holes were slightly out of kilter meaning that the motor and work were slightly out of alignment. It didn't matter and the box worked faultlessly for many many hours. The failure leading to version 1d was linked to wheel/axle diameter rather than the box.

Yes - I've come to realise that shaft-size does matter (schoolboy giggle!). I had a go at using a Cambrian worm gear set but had to ream out the worm with my cheapo Dremel clone. I managed it OK but I'm not sure how long the grub screw would have kept it secure on the motor shaft. As it was, because I couldn't get the mesh right the worm wheel started wearing unevenly after just a few test runs. With Dave (Whizzo)'s help I'm going to using a Cambrian 1:30 worm gearbox to see if that is any more successful. If that doesn't work out I'm then going to try the Como + bevel gears option. They certainly seem like a more cost effective solution than ABC or Slaters but I then run into the axle/shaft diameter issue. Basically I'd need to make a 4mm to 3mm reduction sleeve. The frustrating thing is I've seen these on one of the websites I was trawling and now can't find where I saw them. Even more frustrating than the usual - have you seen my car keys/glasses/wallet game I seem to keep playing increasingly.

Rik

 

[themole]

Another venue is Proops they have gearboxes gears and plenty more. I bought back in the 80's a job lot of Buhler motors the same type as fitted to LGB for a £1 each.. Also bought brass gears and worms from them as well. A first class outfit.

 

[ge_rik]

Another venue is Proops they have gearboxes gears and plenty more. I bought back in the 80's a job lot of Buhler motors the same type as fitted to LGB for a £1 each.. Also bought brass gears and worms from them as well. A first class outfit.

That's put me in mind of another source I used to use as a teacher - Greenweld - http://www.greenweld.co.uk/
They do have some motors and gearboxes but I'm not sure if they would be any more durable than what I have already. I must remember to keep checking their 'surplus' stocks as that's often where bargains can be picked-up.

BTW - tracked down the source of the shaft sleeves should anyone else feel the need - http://www.motionco.co.uk/bore-reducers-c-61.html Rik

 

[Rhinochugger]

Life is rarely straightforward - it's often bevelled
Como motor - there are a number of voltage/ratio combinations, and I can't advise on what's best. The drawback that I've found revolves around bevel gears, and that the only ones that i can find are pairs, and with the Como having a 4mm shaft, you need to find a 4mm axle.
ABC gearbox - Rolls Royce and too good for an IP motor.
The big issue is really axle diameter. Essel Engineering do a selection of 3/16" axles, IP use 1/8". If you're not using whizzy cranks, there are other possibilities, if using whizzies, then Essel also have their own cranks (notice how the cash register keeps going kerching).
If you can go with 3/16" axle, then Roxey Mouldings do some 0 gauge gearbox etches with gears for modest money. While you're at it, I'd send the IP motor to outer darkness and invest in a 5-pole Mabuchi 385 from Swift Sixteen for £7.50
Ratios - the IP Mk1 box uses something like 17:1 which is far too low for NiMH batteries. I was advised when I was struggling with my IP chassis in its version 1a guise, that NiMH batteries give better results if the motor is whizzing at high revs, they don't like delivering low down grunt. My 1b version ran on a recycled 35:1 gear set and delivered fine performance, I'm going for 40:1 on version 1d.
I did build a home made gearbox to go with the 35:1 set, by simply bending a 30mm x 3mm aluminium flat bar in a vice to give a squared off 'U' shape. I then drilled all the holes, with a bit of wood stuffed into the 'U' to give rigidity. the axle/worm alighned fine, but the motor mounting holes were slightly out of kilter meaning that the motor and work were slightly out of alignment. It didn't matter and the box worked faultlessly for many many hours. The failure leading to version 1d was linked to wheel/axle diameter rather than the box.

Basically I'd need to make a 4mm to 3mm reduction sleeve.
Rik

Cornwall Model Boats

 

[GTB]

Has anyone found a reliable gear / motor replacement for those sold with IP Engineering kits

Rik,

They aren't direct rplacements for IP gearboxes, but have a look at the NorthWest Short Line range from the US. Website is here http://www.nwsl.com/Home_Page.html ...ut not cheap though...... Regards, Graeme

 

[ge_rik]

My old Merlin Motor Mule still has the original 20+ year old motor and gears in it. The drive is a Como motor with an integral 30:1 planetary gearbox and 1:1 bevel gears as the final drive. It had led a hard life before I found it and overhauled it recently, so the drive is certainly durable. Though I have to say the planetary gearboxes sound like a chaff cutter as it trundles around the track.

Equivalent Como-MFA motor gearboxes are still available and equivalent metal bevel gears are available from RS Components, but not cheap though......
Regards,
Graeme

Thanks Graeme
That's two votes of confidence for MFA Como

Try an MFA Como motor/gearbox combi driving a pair of bevel gears to turn the drive train through 90 degrees. Much more power, bags of torque dependant on your chosen gearbox combi and an extremely smooth drive. Motor can be any angle between vertical to horizontal.

I used an MFA 918D30112/1 motor which comes with a very nice baseplate for mounting it. If I remember correctly it's listed as a 12/24v motor but runs happily on 6 Volts and is matched to a 30 to 1 gearbox. I used the bevel gears that are listed for use with that motor as the final drive.

For my next build I'm going to invest in this combination (ie planetary motor/gearbox and bevel gears) - compared with other sources i've investigated, MFA Como are competitively priced and given their track record it looks as if they are considerably more reliable than IP's own offerings

Rik

 

[ge_rik]

Thanks to all for the info and technical assistance on this topic. An update on progress.

After trying not very successfully to make my own gearbox using Cambrian 20:1 gears, Dave (Whizzo) came to the rescue and provided me with a nifty little gearbox using a set of 00 gears.

He's not too sure how long these gears will last but they are more substantial than the Cambrian ones, so I'm hopeful. Here's how they look installed in the loco

And here's the loco in question - now awaiting a visit to the paint shops and the addition of more detailing.

I also followed the advice given and replaced another ailing IP gearbox in my railbus

with an MFA Como/bevel gear arrangement.

I must say, the bevel gears are a little more forgiving than worm gears in what they will tolerate in terms of misalignment. Not had a chance to test-run her fully yet as I'm awaiting delivery of a Chinese 12v li-ion battery.

So, thanks again guys for all your help. That's what makes this forum such a good place to hang-out.

Rik

 

[Rhinochugger]

Rik, the Railbus looks spanking. Have you got any bearings in that brass cradle? Even some tube would do

 

[ge_rik]

Have you got any bearings in that brass cradle? Even some tube would do

No not done that
I do have some brass tubing of the right dia so will have a go at soldering some on - just a bit concerned about keeping it in true

Rik