is there any harm in leaving water in the boiler

stevedenver

stevedenver

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i use distilled water-exclusively


is there any harm in leaving the boiler partially filled, say, for months at a time?
i can only imagine that even with emptying, there is enough moisture to do the same, if any, as if filled?

ditto for steam oil
i always drain the gunk and water while hot, and then re-fill while hot/warm to aid in flow
any issues here ?
again sometimes i run a lot, sometimes they sit for months

the only thing i do empty religiously is to remove batteries each and every time for the Rc transmitters and receivers
 
I also use distiller water and don't worry
too much about leaving water in the boiler. if I was going to leave for many months and the boiler easy to drain than that is what I would do - in 30 years I have never seen a problem with copper boilers however.
As far as filling the oiler goes one just needs to make sure it cannot be sucked into a cooling boiler...
 
tag-
i would appreciate your elaborating, not that i have oil in the boiler to my knowledge
BUT
IF the steam oil were to be sucked in-what is the issue
IF the boiler water is hot-the steam oil should turn to an emulsion and eventually be exhausted, hopefully entirely , over a few runs??? nes pas?

as for batteries-if you leave them long enough they WILL leak/or at least have the corrsion stuff at the ends, in my experience, even duracells -which i also use
 
Steve ,
I usually drain all of the water out, even using dsitilled water. Anything fitted with a site glass or site window like your Frank S . Distilled water I found can still leave a residue film on the glass if it sits. I have had to fill the boiler of my Wilesco Steam Tractor with vinger and let it sit to remove the film from the glass after not running for several months. Just my take on it.

Charles M
 
If you have a loco with a brass boiler (they are few and far between these days and are usually classed as "heritage") then you must not leave water in the boiler for any length of time. The water leaches the zinc out of the brass and turns it in to perforated copper.

Of my own locos, I only ever religiously drain the one I have that has a brass boiler. The others sit with water in them for most of the year.

I have never drained a lubricator at the end of a run, ever. The "gucky mess" left in them is only emulsified oil and separates out to oil and water in time, ready to be used again after draining the water.

I'll be interested to see what others say about oil in boilers though...
 
The only major proviso I would give over leaving water in a copper boiler is - FOR GOODNESS SAKE DONT LET THE FROST GET TO IT!!!!! Even in the house, if the heating failed it could happen.

I would think the biggest problem with oil getting into the boiler would be if it should then get into the superheater, it could easily burn and cause a blockage. It isn't all that likely though as though oil floats on water and the water level shouldn't get as high as the steam outlet, but....................................

Second, if there should be so much oil that it completely covers the surface of the water it might affect the boiling point (speculation).
 
Freezing is a good point, thanks. Dont think draining the boiler would help though unless it was full, but anywater in the pipes and cylinders could do nasty things if it froze.
Oil emulsion will probably lower the freezing point not sure about boiling point may elevate it, this is true for solutes but not sure about emulsions. What the effects of a layer of oil is interesting too.
 
I think it could perhaps get on the heating surfaces and reduce heat transfer. Hardly the end of the world on our little boilers, easy to clean out I would have thought.

As for how - a cooling boiler will create a vacuum if there isn't an open valve, so may suck the contents of the displacement lubricator back into the boiler.

I see my new Regner has a brass boiler - not impressed.....
 
bobg said:
I would think the biggest problem with oil getting into the boiler would be if it should then get into the superheater, it could easily burn and cause a blockage. It isn't all that likely though as though oil floats on water and the water level shouldn't get as high as the steam outlet, but....................................
Click to expand...
That is not a problem. After leaving the boiler through the steam outlet the steam will pass through the regulator and the lubricator (picking up some oil on the way) before then passing through the superheater. The only oil that could possibly and accidentally end up in the boiler is steam oil sucked back from the lubricator. Steam oil is formulated not to burn in the superheater.

The explanation I was given many years ago (and in relation to full size boilers) was that an oil coating on the tube surfaces can be sufficient to insulate them from direct contact with the water so that hot spots can occur. This can then lead to the tube being over-stressed in a relatively small area and could lead to cracking. How that relates to our little boilers I do not know.
 
alright then-very informative and thanks to all
i guess ill start draining too-i understand the sight glass issue -

hand syphon the frank with my syringe
now
i have a blow down valve on the SRRL -
any issues when blowing down a still hot but steam exhausted engine-ie ive run it until there no longer sufficient pressure to move it, but still enough to make a wonderful sight as it exits all steamy and spitting
any issue re rapid cooling, back pressure etc ( i alway close the regulator once im out of steam)

and as for the old oil-so i simply pour off the water or empty the water and re-fill-slight dilution etc isnt an issue then ?
 
n full size practise its either totally empty and dryed out or what they call a water wedge totally filled till overflowing while hot to get as much oxygen out of the water
In a copper boiler I dont think it matters... just dont let it freeze, if the water freezes it can burst seams...
 
stevedenver said:
tag-
i would appreciate your elaborating, not that i have oil in the boiler to my knowledge
BUT
IF the steam oil were to be sucked in-what is the issue
IF the boiler water is hot-the steam oil should turn to an emulsion and eventually be exhausted, hopefully entirely , over a few runs??? nes pas?

as for batteries-if you leave them long enough they WILL leak/or at least have the corrsion stuff at the ends, in my experience, even duracells -which i also use
Click to expand...
The water gauge would get manky certainly ? I have had this happen. I also understand that a coating of oil in the boiler can reduce efficiency but I have not noticed this myself. Should all be fine as long as your boiler drain is open and the regulator is closed.
 
stevedenver said:
alright then-very informative and thanks to all
i guess ill start draining too-i understand the sight glass issue -

hand syphon the frank with my syringe
now
i have a blow down valve on the SRRL -
any issues when blowing down a still hot but steam exhausted engine-ie ive run it until there no longer sufficient pressure to move it, but still enough to make a wonderful sight as it exits all steamy and spitting
any issue re rapid cooling, back pressure etc ( i alway close the regulator once im out of steam)

and as for the old oil-so i simply pour off the water or empty the water and re-fill-slight dilution etc isnt an issue then ?
Click to expand...
The oil is not a problem. Indeed if one follows Roundhouse instructions the oiler drain is opened only prior to the next run and the water allowed to drain out. The oiler is then just topped up with fresh oil but not wasting what is already in the oiler. A locomotive builder friend of mine says that steam can be very corrosive if draining out under pressure. I take his word for it because his skills in this area are greater than mine, but have not noticed a problem myself.

In terms of emptying the boiler I think the short answer is that if one runs regularly using distilled water then leaving water in a copper boiler is not a problem...
 
Just though, distilled water has no chlorine and thus will grow algae (tap water will lose its chlorine, but from my experience of swimming pools and putting distilled water in my car screen washer bottle it goes mankier quicker than tap)
Oil in the water will inhibit maybe prevent growth. When you look at the water in the boiler always a slight oil film.
Thinking its best to empity it.
So is it OK to blow the boiler thru with compressed air to dry it?
 
Cyclone said:
Thinking its best to empity it.
So is it OK to blow the boiler thru with compressed air to dry it?
Click to expand...

If you can guarrantee that the compressed air IS dry, for that it needs to be put through a drier as used by paint sprayers. No real need to dry it out, just drain and leave something open to let it breathe. if you drain it whilst it is still warmish that'll probably dry it enough. The water in there has been boiled so any potential algae should be dead, and I'm not sure it will grow on copper anyway.

Lets not all get carried away here, this is no major deal. A copper boiler will not easily come to harm. Which is why copper is best.

P.s. Tony, You are of course right that the steam oil from the disp/lube does go through the superheeater I had missed that point, being more used to mechanical ones.
 
Shouldn't be a problem Ed, but why go to the bother. It'll be fine just drained (even cold).
 
compressed air has an oil residue it it,,, thats why a sprayer would have both an oil and water separator/filter
 
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