LGB Orient Express loco problems

[KeithT]

Thinking caps on please... a friend brought a couple of locos to a running session this afternoon. The first is the blue Orient Express Mallet, Cat' No. 21852 (although on opening it up I found one of the lead weights with the number 22852 cast into it).
The loco had "not been used for a while".

At the first attempt the front power block was sticking, the motion seemed OK but lacking lubricant. It ran reasonably in reverse and after some cajoling it ran forwards but with intermittent sticking of the front unit.
Another bit of "added value" was the lights which refused to switch respond to Command 9. However, on most circuits the loco would falter momentarily in the same location at which point the lights would flash on and off! It wasn't possible to cause it to happen by jolting the loco. Eventually I was "volunteered" to have look at it and at least lubricate it. On getting it home I realised that it had not had the most cherished existence some previous owner having fitted five different screws to hold the body in place two of which were woodscrews. Incidentally, is the fitted card the standard LGB one? It has a volume control hidden under the middle dome. (I am not too impressed with the sound, it is blurry. Poss' a poor speaker?)There is a 3 pin plug lying "spare" at the rear of the body.

There were no loose connections although I taped a couple of suspect bare patches on some shrink tubing.
After lubricating it I removed the baseplate expecting to see mangled gears but they were well lubed and in perfect condition.
On testing it on the rollers the rear power truck was now the one reluctant to move! After a little persuasion it ran reasonably but the the speeds are not matched, sometimes the front runs faster and sometimes the rear one.
The only clue I have to what might be wrong was that after the first running session I thought that the smoke generator had been operating because the upper front end was noticeably hot but the next check showed that it wasn't the generator - it doesn;t work at all.
So, could it be a sick motor(s)? Seems unlikely that both have gone intermittently sick at one and the same time.
The second loco was this one. It weighs a 'ton'.

All it needed was oiling. I am not a particular fan of Forneys but this is the second one I have seen which looks far better in the flesh and the slow running is superb. There is no Cat' No. on it - odd.
PS I don't 'do' electronics so if it is the card at fault then it is "over and out" for me!nphone:

 

[Gizzy]

Looks like a Massoth XLS decoder in the Mallet?

Check the screws are tight on the motor connections: the Green/White/Brown/Yellow wires. Should be two wires of each colour.

The black wires look a bit 'iffy' on your photo, but that might be because I'm not wearing my specs....

 

[minimans]

Check the front motor unit for contamination from the smoke unit these have a habit of leaking and shorting out the motor causing it not to run or stutter badly

 

[KeithT]

I had a very similar problem with my Sumpter mallet on the poor running, stopping/starting, went through a couple of motors and even a new chassis on the leading bogie. Turned out to be a bad connection between one of the pins that connect the motor to the brass tab that has a power lead soldered to it, green one I think. It was the very small tab and I replaced it by soldering a wire to the motor and running it through the hole the pin was in and then jointing it to the cable. Both were found to be the same so I did both motors this way, no problem since.
Kim

Thanks Kim i will have closer look at the connections.
Gizzy I have checked and tightened all the screwed links. There was some dodgy looking wiring but apart from the shrink sleeve it proved to be no more than sloppy use of silicone although one wire looked as if it had been trapped.
The Forney would be a lot easier to work on.....&:&:

 

[nicebutdim]

Ensure the quartering and gear timing are all correct too. If someone else has been tinkering with it they may have not put everything back square with regards to the drive wheels and this causes binding and motor overheating. Also make sure there isn't too much lubrication as this causes more of a problem, especially if it makes it's way inside the motor and onto the commutator.

 

[dunnyrail]

Another thing to do wood be to take the chip out of the loco, making a good note of what goes to where. Put colored tape on the wires so that you can make a note of where they go. Then remove each chassis in turn and wire these up to the chip with temp wining, you will only need 4 wires for this. Make sure that you get them correct otherwise you can fry the chip. Then test each chassis in turn to see how they run.

On the chip:-
GL -+ are to the Track
MOT -+ are to the motor

Also don't forget to connect the speaker, you should get a good running chassis with this and sounds should all work OK too. When testing be very careful to ensure that no wires touch any power other than the direct jury rig connections that you have done. Good luck.
JonD

 

[nicebutdim]

Try powering the chassis from analogue power on their own too, with no chips or anything between, just to see if it's the chassis that is causing the problem or the dcc side. If you have a multimeter, put it on amps, place it in series with the power to the chassis and see how much it is drawing. I don't know what the current draw should be for these, but it shouldn't be near an amp with no load.

 

[Philbahn]

Looking at the picture Keith I would assume the loose wire is in fact the rear lights as there dosen't see,m to be one connected.
I wounder if the gear meshing has been altered maybe by one or two teeth causing the conrods to lock. Worth trying first. I have found a similar fault on my rack loco, runs fine one way but not the other

 

[KeithT]

Thanks guys for all the pointers. It will be next week before I can give it a thorough 'seeing-to' (wall to wall grandchildren, eye injections and myriad other obstacles between now and next Tuesday) although I will shy clear of the electronic wizardry espec' as it is not my loco.
Phil the gear meshing looks to be perfect as are the gearboxes. Because the rods had not been oiled in years I had expected mayhem in the gearboxes but they are A OK.

 

[Steve]

I would agree with Minimans , had the same fault with my Mallet .

 

[KeithT]

I would agree with Minimans , had the same fault with my Mallet .

The edges of the baseplate on the front unit were suspiciously wet. Although the owner has never to my knowledge used smoke fluid but it could just be down to the previous owner(s).
I might get a chance to 'escape' this afternoon and recheck it.

 

[stevedenver]

i would suspect the motors also
swap one with a good one and see the result

 

[Tim Brien]

I agree with Steve as to checking the motors. My #2085 purchased 'as new' with no runtime(?) would only take a few volts running at low speed. As voltage increased the loco would trip the ten amp power supply. Turned out both motors were completely contaminated with oil/grease. Swapped out both motors and the unit ran superbly. I did clean out the old motors but decided to replace with new ones.

 

[KeithT]

Have now checked for contamination of the motors but they are clean.
When I put it back on the rollers the same problem was evident but this time the rear power bogie was the problem one. It would only begin to move at stage 3 on the controller and ran consistently slower than the front one. Initially it was the opposite way round with the front bogie refusing to start.
The owner has decided to take it back to the shop where he bought it and ask them to check it through.
Thanks for all the advice at least I know a lot more about these locos now even if I couldn't resolve the problem!

 

[KeithT]

Curiouser and curiouser, before returning the loco I changed control systems.
My rolling road is MTS2, I changed to MTS3. On MTS 2 the lights would not switch but on MTS3 the front lights were switchable! The rear lights won't work on either.:-
I give up!

 

[Philbahn]

Told you bring it here. A cv is wrong or several

 

[KeithT]

Phil
I will see if I can get it back.