LGB point problem

[granddad]

Hi,
I have a problem with an LGB R2 LH point, in that it will not switch fully in either direction. The point motor is fine but the blades seem to be binding at their pivot point and "spring back" when switched. (hopefully pictures attached!) There appears to be no debris in the point, or any other obstructions. Has anyone any ideas how to overcome this. The point(s) have been down for around 10 months now.
TIA
Martin

 

[ntpntpntp]

There's not usually a lot of movement at the pivot point. It's held in place with a screw so make sure that's not worked loose? Does the whole blade slide left and right? Has the rail running from the pivot point to the frog worked it's way leftwards a little and closed the gap too much? It also looks like the main curved running rail at the top of the photo may have gone a little tight to gauge - there seems to be quite a gap between the rail and the chairs compared to my R3 points?

 

[Railway42]

Hi
It sounds to me a point motor problem. Remove the top of the point motor lift out the connecting bar set the motor spigot so the point is at the top. It will try to move one way or the other you have to balance it then carefully place the connecting bar in the centre the same amount either side and screw the top back on.

 

[Madman]

Both of the above suggestions are well worth exploring. I have had similar issues with the LGB R2 switches. I have taken a unfitly knife and pressed the blade down into the gap, if you can call it that, between the stationary and pivot rail at the pivot point. This separates the rails ever so slightly and also allows any debris to dislodge. At the point where the moving blade isn't making complete contact with the outer rail, I have taken a pair of pliers and bent the thin edge toward the outer rail on some of my switches. It doesn't take much bending to get the rails to meet as they should.

 

[cbeckett]

I had a point problem - overnight, last June. I still can`t figure out which critter did it - we live in a gated community, so stupid animals like Emus can`t get in...but it still takes a lot of force to bend brass rails, without tools....  Never sussed that out....

 

[Gizzy]

Agree with the 2 points (no pun intended) made by ntp and rail42.

I also lubricate the electrical contact that the blades slide along with a smear of coppergrease....

 

[dunnyrail]

The other possibility could be that there is some sort of Carp that has got below the Rail where it Pivots. If you can, lift the Point invert undo the Screws holding the Moving Rails from below and give it all a good clean up. Then perhaps rub a Candle on the Moving Parts but not where the Power is Connected. Put back together with perhaps a little Grease where the screw goes.

Hope this helps a bit more.
JonD

 

[Zerogee]

I'm probably being unnecessarily pedantic here (who...ME?) but just to clarify, I assume we're talking about LGB R3 points here, not R2? As far as I'm aware the only manufacturer of R2 points is Trainline45.....

Jon.

 

[granddad]

Hi all,

Thanks for the suggestions, I will investigate all.
I am probably wrong about the radius of the point - they could well be R3.
The problem is definately not the motor as the point will not stay on either side when the motor is removed and the point operated manually.
I will lift the point ??? and check for debris etc beneath.
Also how would I correct the main running rail curvature 'ntpntpntp' ?

Martin

 

[ntpntpntp]

Hi all,
Also how would I correct the main running rail curvature 'ntpntpntp' ?

er... could be "interesting" to fix. Brute force with fingers or pliers may not be enough movement due to the chairs. Might need to remove the fishplate and slide the entire rail out of the chairs in order to get a good grip and bend it! I've never tried this.

Related to this, I was wondering whether the track immediately to the "left" has possibly exerted some bending force over time, causing the curved rail to adopt it's new shape?

Anyway, I think it's a case of lift and check before attempting any drastic measures.

Nick

 

[Gizzy]

Just been looking at blown up pictures of your point.

1. The point where the blade that is binding seems to be very close together, compared to the other pivot point.

2. There might be debris under the 'ramp' which covers the tie bar? This will pull off and push on quite easily, and should also be inspected before lifting the point.

3. Inspect the point blade for damage. It doesn't look right to me compared to the other curved blade as it doesn't seem to be a sharp edge....

 

[Gizzy]

Also, difficult to see from the overhead shot, but I think the binding blade is tilted over slightly.

This is probably due to the pivot screw being loose. Does the blade wobble?

You will have to lift the point to tighten this screw. I would also add a very, very, small amount of thread lock to the very tip of the screw, just enough so the electrical continuity is not compromised....

 

[granddad]

Hi all,
OK. So I lifted the point - no debri beneath, well none that would interfere with it`s operation. Cleaned everything, centred the motor as you suggested Railway42, checked and tightened screws etc. All this in the `workshop` ( my hobby room!) to no avail.
The only way I could alleviate the issue was to file a slight angle on the offending rail. (see pic)
All now works fine, so thanks again for all of your inputs. I know where to come when I am in trouble again - which I`m sure I will be at a later stage  :-

Martin

Admin - mark as solved please.

 

[GAP]

Hi all,
OK. So I lifted the point - no debri beneath, well none that would interfere with it's operation. Cleaned everything, centred the motor as you suggested Railway42, checked and tightened screws etc. All this in the 'workshop' ( my hobby room!) to no avail.
The only way I could alleviate the issue was to file a slight angle on the offending rail. (see pic)
All now works fine, so thanks again for all of your inputs. I know where to come when I am in trouble again - which I'm sure I will be at a later stage :-\

Martin

Admin - mark as solved please.

Looking at the last picture and comparing it to a point I have, I noticed that the gap between the movable blade and the rail leading to the frog is markedly smaller in the picture than the one I have here.
Possibly the frog rail has either moved or was installed closer to the pivot than normal during manufacture resulting in them binding.
There also appears to be a bit of burring where the movable and fixed rails meet which may be the result of binding.
It may be worth looking at that gap if the issue returns or even seeing if the point rail has a slight movement.

 

[ntpntpntp]

...Possibly the frog rail has either moved or was installed closer to the pivot than normal during manufacture resulting in them binding.

Yeah that what one of my suggested causes back on the 2nd post. It would be interesting to see a piccie of the frog area, that would reveal whether the rail has moved?

But anyway it's fixed for now.Splendid.

 

[granddad]

Hi 'gap' & 'ntp',
I did check the rail attached to the frog to see if it had moved - it hadn't, and the fixing was secure. The 'burring' on the moveable blade is likely due to my clumsy filing :
I'll pop up a picture of the frog area tomorrow, just for completeness.
I've been running trains around for most of today, switching point(s) with no issues today, so fingers crossed eh!
Thanks again for all you guys help and suggestions.
Martin

 

[granddad]

OK Guys,
As promised, some pics of the frog area of my errant point - still functioning perfectly again in today`s sunshine 
Martin

 

[Madman]

It looks like a bit of melting is going on there! Not only on the frog but all the plastic seems to have been melted.

 

[GAP]

It looks like a bit of melting is going on there! Not only on the frog but all the plastic seems to have been melted.

I agree with the melted look around the frog area.

What was used to solder the wires to the point?

 

[ntpntpntp]

TBH I think the "melting" is just an illusion due to moisture on the plastic. The rails look to be in place. Maybe this is just a case of a badly made point where the rail was cut slightly too long at the factory. I've seen similar constructions problems on other LGB points - only minor errors but just enough to upset things.