New boiler testing rules

M

Midwalesstokie

Registered
Has anybody seen this below? Section 14 deals with boilers with a capacity of 3bar or below, basically most commercially available 16mm scale live steam models.

http://www.sfmes.co.uk/committees/boilerSC/reference/2012_Test_Code_V12a.pdf < Link To http://www.sfmes.co.uk/co...012_Test_Code_V12a.pdf

I heard about it through my model engineering society. I'm not sure yet exactly what the implications are for those of us that operate live steam in public, either at events or open days but this discussion on the model engineering forum doesn't sound too optimistic.

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=55653 < Link To http://www.model-engineer.../postings.asp?th=55653
 
Take a look at the 16mm Asssoc boiler testing and use documents, they covered all this in SMT last year.
 
As I read the 16mm Assoc Insurance page they are still quoting the 2008 boiler regs and not the new 2012 regs (green book).
 
My understanding of the 16mm Assoc advice to cover the new regs - make sure you have a mark on the pressure gauge at max working pressure and run the boiler for 5 minutes with the safety valve blowing off, with the pressure gauge needle on the red line. Record on sheet provided in the bulleitin.
 
I now have my Green Book to hand.

New boilers will be tested to 2x Pw (working pressure) and again to 1.5 x Pw once completed and ready for service, IF certification has been provided by the manufacturer this is deemed acceptable (this is not materially different from previous instructions).

Then, if you wish to run in public, a steam test must be certified every 12 mths (as per larger boilers under the Code). This will include what is called an 'accumulation test' to ensure that the Pw is not exceeded at by more than 10% within 5 mins (this is to show that the safety valves are capable of stabilising the boiler pressure against the burner) and the pressure gauge must also be marked with the Pw. If fitted, the water gauge and/or boiler feed pump must be shown to operate satifactorily. There will also be a visual inspection of associated pipework. This bit is a public liability insurance requirement.
 
"What a disappointment for our doomsters to find that​
the boiler in question was not a model locomotive​
boiler, but the boiler of a coffee machine in Sainsury's​
cafe in Farnborough!"

So where is the definition of public in those 25 pages of information? How does it make things safer than they are already ?
I am quoting:

Northern Association of Model Engineers​
 Snippets
[size=18pt]for club notice boards [/size]November 2010
 
Yes I liked that one too Gaz!

No model boiler explosions for over 130 years, is another gem.

Fact is that model boilers are made to specs that far exceed their design requirements (basically to allow for supidity, and a bit of possible corrosion) to the order of as much as 10 times. The biggest variable is the guy who actually puts it together; i.e. can he braze/weld/solder???

I suspect coffee machines aren't! :bigsmile:
 
im going to write a load of rules.. regarding boiler testing. and say its the offical test
 
I like your style Mike!!

I suspect the definition of public is down to the respective insurers. What interested me is that the model engineering liaison group, in drawing up their rules do not appear to have consulted either the 16mm society, the G1MRA, the large scale model railway society etc. Therefore, are they necessarily aware?
 
Midwalesstokie said:
.... the model engineering liaison group, in drawing up their rules do not appear to have consulted either the 16mm society, the G1MRA, the large scale model railway society etc. Therefore, are they necessarily aware?
Click to expand...
Here in the Mersey & West Lancs group of the 16mm Association, one of our members volunteered last year to become our official boiler tester. I agreed and suggested he contact the Association for advice.
The reply was, as I said previously, that the situation is "under review" and they will issue test kits when things are finalised.
I do agree, they do not seem to have been consulted re the current rules.
 
To pick up on the above.

'Public' is as defined by the HSE, i.e. the Law. (No change)

The biggest problem with being the 'boiler inspector' is that you can't test your own boilers, so you really need two in any club.
 
bobg said:
'Public' is as defined by the HSE, i.e. the Law. (No change)
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying that Bob!
 
Midwalesstokie said:
Has anybody seen this below? Section 14 deals with boilers with a capacity of 3bar or below, basically most commercially available 16mm scale live steam models.

http://www.sfmes.co.uk/committees/boilerSC/reference/2012_Test_Code_V12a.pdf < Link To http://www.sfmes.co.uk/co...012_Test_Code_V12a.pdf

I heard about it through my model engineering society. I'm not sure yet exactly what the implications are for those of us that operate live steam in public, either at events or open days but this discussion on the model engineering forum doesn't sound too optimistic.

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=55653 < Link To http://www.model-engineer.../postings.asp?th=55653
Click to expand...

OK let's be clear. These are not 'laws' or 'rules' that apply to anyone at all except model engineering clubs who are members of the federations. These 'rules' set out by Wally Pearson and his cronies on the MELG (Model Engineering Locomotive Group) are club rules and the answer is, if you don't like the rules don't join the club. The 16mm Association remains fully insured for public running and for third party insurance ? as do the Gauge 1 Model Railway Association. The testing requirements for the 16mm Association REMAIN AS LAID OUT IN THE LAST SMT/BULLETIN. There is no requirement for further hydraulic testing of commercial boilers or gas tanks ? but there is a steam test document that you will be required to fill out for running at certain shows such as the national Garden Railway Show at Peterborough. This is a self steam test and it is suggested that you undertake this once a year. It is further suggested that you mark the working pressure of your locomotive with a red line on your pressure gauge. You can also do this by just putting a red dot on the rim of your gauge if you do not want to strip it down. The forms supplied for you to do this will be marked with the logo of the 16mm Association and also G1MRA. G1MRA will do things slightly differently because they have a different history but, like the 16mm Association, they will not be complying with this codec because they were not consulted at all.

It should be made clear that a) the insurance companies are happy to continue to insure both 16mm and G1MRA and b) our commercial boilers and gas tanks comply with the Safe Engineering Practice component of the EEC Pressure Vessel Regulations and are supplied with certification to confirm this. The 16mm Association will of course retain full hydraulic test facilities because of course there are those who make their own pressure vessels and the testing regimen for these items will be similar to those set out by the self appointed MELG. Certainly I found it instructive that the Vice Chair of the Southern Fed and the Boiler Registrar knew nothing about this new code. It is a case of the ageing and shrinking engineering federations trying to wag the young and vigorous small scale dog!

Finally and let's be very clear over this. If you are a member of the 16mm Association or G1MRA, then things will be the same as before. You have full public liability insurance as before. You can undertake public running as before. THIS DOES NOT AFFECT US.

Of course it will affect some people. If you are also a member of a model engineering club then you will have to consider your position. Personally I can no longer recommend that16mm, G scale and Gauge 1 modellers join their local model engineering club.

I hope that sets a few minds at rest.
 
MRail said:
Thank you, Tag, very helpful and reassuring.
Click to expand...

Ditto here Tag :thumbup:
 
Yes, thanks Tag and apologies if I concerned anyone, I was just interested to see if anyone else had heard of it.
 
Midwalesstokie said:
Yes, thanks Tag and apologies if I concerned anyone, I was just interested to see if anyone else had heard of it.
Click to expand...

Quite right for bringing this up of course James ? and now a few more people can enjoy their locos without panicking about a vague H&S monster in the background. Of course the MELG premise regarding running for the general public is wrong anyway. I have run at many shows but have never been paid for doing so. I think there is more concern regarding engineering club open days, where the general public are often hauled by large locomotives or indeed traction engines, often with steel boilers. Personally I think models like this, if used to haul passengers, should be tested by an outside boiler inspector, a coded welder fully ultrasonic trained and not a mate from down the club ? but there again I really don't mind as long as our hobby is not affected....
 
mike said:
im going to write a load of rules.. regarding boiler testing. and say its the offical test
Click to expand...
And I suppose one of these rules will be that the loco owner who arrives for test has to bring cake....
 
tagorton said:
mike said:
im going to write a load of rules.. regarding boiler testing. and say its the offical test
Click to expand...
And I suppose one of these rules will be that the loco owner who arrives for test has to bring cake....
Click to expand...

Ah but now that would be a multi-faceted rule to apply to any form of loco testing under any power source......

One would also have to allow for regional variation of course. When dangerously close to Bromyard for example, the loco owner would have to bring Pork Pie ;)
 
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