Possible New Battery Solution?

dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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Just reading through the Adverts in the November Railway Modeller, I noticed a small add showing Wirelessly Control via Tablet or Smartphone (P 44a). BlueRailways. Things like this always grab my attention for Battery Applications.

http://www.bluerailways.co.uk/Products.aspx

What would appear to interest us hear is the 601 Controller. This appears to have the ability to be remotely Controlled via varying devices Wirelessly. Size:-

Dimensions: 75mm x 65mm x 28mm

I am thinking if one was to gut the gubbins from the Handset there could be the basis of a very simple Battery Installation. The Picture of the device shows a Choc Strip with 4 Contacts:-

Input - Loco Motor
Track - Battery

Rated at 12-15v Max 20v with 750ma it might just be the thing for a Modest Sized installation. Of course Cost could be an issue, but the 601 comes out as £49.50 so it may be a Modest Price alternative if you already have Smart Devices that will talk to it.

I think if I were going to jump with one of these I would have a chat to the Manuafacturer and discuss with them what you were planning to do. You might just catch their attention for them to think about something more directed to a wider range of our kit.
JonD
 
Just be careful of the output being PWM. Some on board loco electronics can be fried with this. I understand that very high frequencies are better than lower ones but they do give a value and I don't know what level may be considered safe.
 
dunnyrail said:
.......... I am thinking if one was to gut the gubbins from the Handset there could be the basis of a very simple Battery Installation. The Picture of the device shows a Choc Strip with 4 Contacts:-

Input - Loco Motor
Track - Battery.............
Click to expand...

I think you might have these the wrong way round, JonD - as it is supposed to be a DC controller for track power, if yoiu are using it as a wireless control alternative in a battery loco then surely the "track" connections should go to the motor (since this is what drives the loco in the track-power mode) and the "input" connections would be from the battery pack (replacing the intended transformner power supply)....?

Jon.
 
Zerogee said:
I think you might have these the wrong way round, JonD - as it is supposed to be a DC controller for track power, if yoiu are using it as a wireless control alternative in a battery loco then surely the "track" connections should go to the motor (since this is what drives the loco in the track-power mode) and the "input" connections would be from the battery pack (replacing the intended transformner power supply)....?

Jon.
Click to expand...
Yup you are right, Typical me!
Tony Walsham said:
The outputs are 500 ma and 750 ma respectively.
Barely enough to get a large Scale loco running.
Does anyone have any ideas on prices.
Click to expand...
I did say £49.50 in my original Post.
JonD
 
Tony Walsham said:
You did indeed.
Was that for the first item?
What about prices for the other controller and the # 720 handpiece.
Click to expand...
Tony, thus far the only thing with a Price on their Webb Site in "Shop Tab" is the 601 Controller. If you are interested in other items you could try to Contact them to see if there is any indicative pricing. I have no contact or connection with them, just saw the add and though I wonder?
JonD
 
Just wondering Jon.
Thought the readers might want to know. I don't really care as it is really only capable of running the smaller scales. Or very small large scale locos.
 
Tony Walsham said:
Just wondering Jon.
Thought the readers might want to know. I don't really care as it is really only capable of running the smaller scales. Or very small large scale locos.
Click to expand...

Conjecture makes me wonder if, replacing the output transistors, might 'man it up' a bit for our scales?
 
I think that as this is a very new development (I believe) there sould be possibilities. If thay are at any Show I visit I shall chat to them. The concept of a Battery Locomotive that can be run from a Smartphone (iPhone or other) is what appeals to me. Specially of it could be linked to a DCC Chip as well. Remember DRC200 guys?
JonD
 
Using a smartphone outdoors in bright sunlight is generally agreed to be somewhat problematic.

This is the first blue tooth device that overcomes problems caused by sunlight and has a tactile "feel". What is more interesting to me is the ability to drive an on board bluetooth compatible device with a non smart phone custom built device. Especially if it is able to control a DCC device.
What is on offer as a handpiece is a bit short on features the general Large scale market would like such as sound triggers etc. No doubt the makers will come up with something that does suit.

How about a Bluetooth handpiece that sends commands to an on board Bluetooth decoder which in turn tells any DCC decoder to do.
 
Tony Walsham said:
Using a smartphone outdoors in bright sunlight is generally agreed to be somewhat problematic.

This is the first blue tooth device that overcomes problems caused by sunlight and has a tactile "feel". What is more interesting to me is the ability to drive an on board bluetooth compatible device with a non smart phone custom built device. Especially if it is able to control a DCC device.
What is on offer as a handpiece is a bit short on features the general Large scale market would like such as sound triggers etc. No doubt the makers will come up with something that does suit.

How about a Bluetooth handpiece that sends commands to an on board Bluetooth decoder which in turn tells any DCC decoder to do.
Click to expand...
Ok you are tantalising me Tony, guess you have a Product that matches that last paragraph statement?
JonD
 
I don't have, and likely never will have, anything to do with Bluetooth.
That last paragraph is how I would envisage such a Bluetooth product might be applicable in Large Scale.
I tried to talk Deltang into making a DCC interface using his excellent DSM2 Digital Proportional R/C. He was not interested.
The first company that does what I suggested in that last paragraph, will own the market place for on board R/C control.
 
None of the above are beyond the wit of man..
Whether there is a 'man' out there, with enough wits about him (or her) to develop it, is another matter..

Small-run (cottage industry) is fine, but to make anything of it, wold need type-approval, probably CE mark, and god knows what else!

You can 'breadboard' this sort of thing with Arduino (or other) kits, but due to their generic nature, they tend to be a bit big. Even for our size models..

Power-drain is another problem for some of this.. The kit stuff is not designed to be that efficient. It is not a design criteria for breadboarding kits.
 
The range of bluetooth is a bit limited for our application.
 
Reading the blurb more carefully on the 601 and noting the varying comments on here I would like to make the following observations.

1 They talk about CV's for Motor Control which sounds like some kind of DCC programming may be possible. Perhaps more so in the future.

2 Mobile Screens are indeed a worry in Sunlight. They do however talk about 'Tilting' the device (Phone or Pad) to Drive the Trains, an interesting use of the Technology that is already used in Racing Cars (Anki Overdrive) and Model Helicopters/Drones. This would mean that Driving could be unafected by the Sun. Wonder if they have thought of Forward/Reverce Accelorate/Decelerate by Tilting all 4 Ways? Though it might mean looking at the Screen away from the Sun for other functions, something that Mobile users are pretty used to.

3 Low Ma Power, would probably be OK for something like a Playmobil Railcar or an LGB Tram. Or even a Scratched job with a smallish power drain.
JonD
 
Hi I have been looking at the bluerail system and have seen it demonstrated very efectivly on large OO layouts. The demontration I saw was of the dead rail system which uses sections of powered track to recharge an on board battery it worked very efectivly it also came supplied with on board generic diesel and steam sounds these came from the hand peice but with the addition of a speaker in the loco could be programed to come from the loco itself. They have also just released a addition to thier App alowwing the setting and control of the chuff rate for steam.
http://bluerailtrains.com/board-sign-up/

I am going to try the full battery powered unit in the 7/8 Malcome Moore I am building so will report back when it is complete and running.
The cost listed on the websit is $85.00 US plus postage.
Alan
 
What about using it to drive a variable voltage regulator?

Connect the track to the adjust pin of for example an LM338 and vary the voltage on the pin to vary the output in this picture all R2 is doing is changing the voltage at "adj" as it is part of a voltage divider (R1+R2).

LM338 basic adjustable power supply circuit diagram.png

The LM338 gives a voltage range from 1.2V to 32V with a current of 5A.

I used one as a variable speed control on my old DC HO layout (The power supply was 3 SLA batteries) and it fitted into a small box that I could hold in my hand.
 
GAP said:
What about using it to drive a variable voltage regulator?

Connect the track to the adjust pin of for example an LM338 and vary the voltage on the pin to vary the output in this picture all R2 is doing is changing the voltage at "adj" as it is part of a voltage divider (R1+R2).

View attachment 216822

The LM338 gives a voltage range from 1.2V to 32V with a current of 5A.

I used one as a variable speed control on my old DC HO layout (The power supply was 3 SLA batteries) and it fitted into a small box that I could hold in my hand.
Click to expand...
Gap,
Not fully understanding such Electronics I am inclined ro say Wibble. However I do know that they work and would love to understand this even though I could make one if I managed to get the parts.
Some questions:-
1 However my rudimentary knowledge asks where is the Negative?
2 Are both connected to the little inverted Triangle at the bottom of the circuit?
3 What was the quality of Control like on the one you created?
4 Good Slow speed for Shunting?
Thanks for posting the concept of what appears to be a modest upgrade.
JonD
 
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