Putting on weight

R

Robert Howard

Registered
This is a bit of a newbie question but is adding weight to carriages a good idea?

If so any recommendations on low tech ways to do this?


I have a Bachmann Thomas starter set and some other wagons etc, but all of my derailments are with the Annie and Clarabel coaches. Now I am aware that my track laying is not the greatest but would adding some weight help?

Thanks for any advice!

Rob
 
The bags of coins are a great idea for testing, easy to adjust until you're happy with the results - once you know roughly how much weight your need, you could always swap it for self-adhesive tyre balancing weights stuck to the carriage floor, thus keeping the weight fixed in place (probably over the axles is best) and as low down as possible to keep the centre of gravity low.

You'll need just enough weight to keep the coaches reliably on the track, but not so much that they get heavy to pull - not that this is likely to be a problem with short TtTE trains!

Jon.
 
'Tis a well known fact though, that due to the lack of secondary (or any, in many cases) suspension, track is the prime cause of derailments. Yes sometimes a little more weight will help, but four wheeled stock has more trouble riding the rough sections, the longer the wheel base, hence more trouble with Annie and Clarabelle than with Troublesome Trucks. Try carefully re-levelling the section of track that is worst for derailments and watch things improve. Test with 'Annie' to see if there is 'corner to corner' rock around the area and try to eliminate that.
 
I had trouble with some Aristocraft tank cars. Having nothing else to hand I bought some door handle spindles from our local DIY. Worked a treat.
 
In my view the best thing that you can do for reliable running and weight as well is to use Metal Wheels. Nothing else in my view is required. Yes I know replacement wheels are not cheep, but Bachman ones are a straight fit into LGB Stock and have served me well and reliably for over 10 year nows. They are certainly much cheaper than LGB and a pack will do 2 4 wheel vehicles.

I personally do not recommend any other makes having tried them all and found them to be unreliable on LGB Points due to their Finer Scale Profile. In this I refer to certain American and English makes of Metal Wheels.
JonD
 
Another vote for metal wheels for adding weight.

Like Jon D, I have standardised on the Bachmann/Lilliput wheels on all my stock.

Zerogee's idea of the stick on lead weights used for tyre balancing is also a good idea but not one I have tried personally?

I also use various loads of (real) logs, (ceramic) bricks and (cat litter) gravel for freight wagons which add weight
 
bobg said:
'Tis a well known fact though, that due to the lack of secondary (or any, in many cases) suspension, track is the prime cause of derailments. Yes sometimes a little more weight will help, but four wheeled stock has more trouble riding the rough sections, the longer the wheel base, hence more trouble with Annie and Clarabelle than with Troublesome Trucks. Try carefully re-levelling the section of track that is worst for derailments and watch things improve. Test with 'Annie' to see if there is 'corner to corner' rock around the area and try to eliminate that.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. On a related topic, I have added weight to all of my rolling stock, even though all of the stock has metal wheels. Almost all of my rolling stock is of the field type. Since I have some turnouts that are sprung, the extra weight helps the cars to push the points, thus eliminating the jump at the points. The weight I use is sheet lead. On these small cars I simply remove the chassis and wheels and fit a sheet of lead to the underside of the body. Most of my stock is LGB.
 
Suckered in thought it was about me and my age matching my waist size.................. :(
 
The problem with the TTTE coaches is that the axles are held rigid in the chassis. Other makes have some form of 'sloppiness' which compensates for uneven track, inevitable in garden railways.
One of my friends, James of this forum, has successfully modified his TTTE coaches by allowing the axles to twist slightly...he's filed the round axle bearings oval, only by a mm or so...file the hole AWAY from the coach body...so the ride height is the same, but now the wheels can drop into small irregularities.

I'll get him to tell you exactly what he did to make the TTTE coaches run happily on track that's not mounted onto a billiard table!

Malcolm
 
Brixham said:
The problem with the TTTE coaches is that the axles are held rigid in the chassis. Other makes have some form of 'sloppiness' which compensates for uneven track, inevitable in garden railways.
One of my friends, James of this forum, has successfully modified his TTTE coaches by allowing the axles to twist slightly...he's filed the round axle bearings oval, only by a mm or so...file the hole AWAY from the coach body...so the ride height is the same, but now the wheels can drop into small irregularities.

I'll get him to tell you exactly what he did to make the TTTE coaches run happily on track that's not mounted onto a billiard table!

Malcolm
Click to expand...

Doing that, is effectively adding suspension, albeit an un-sprung suspension. The same thing could be achieved by having deeper flanges but that can cause problems elsewhere (points etc.). Still far better to improve the track.
 
Guys,

I had a lot of trouble getting my TTE stock to run properly. They were incredibly unforgiving and fell off the rails when and where no other stock did, so I tried a number of modifications.

Firstly as Malcolm says I tried adding 1.4mm of drop to the axle supports. This did improve things, although there were still other issues.

Couplings - the ones Bachmann supply are horrid, especially the new D shaped large couplings so all the short wheelbase 4 wheel stock have been fitted with genuine LGB couplings.

Longer stock, such as Annie & Clarabel, Emily's coaches (the Xmas Coach) and the Goods brake van tend to lock on sharp curves. The rigid body mounted couplings were the problem here, so theywere fitted with couplings that pivoted. I tried out a number of designs but settled on one made from the arm of a Playmobil 2 Axle Bogie. I eventually lightly sprung these so that they centre automatically.

Despite all that has been done I have found that the Emily coaches (Xmas coach) and the brake van really does not like 2' Radius curves and the drag is truly awful. The short goods stock, Annie and Clarabel will run on 2' radius curves, but they do not like reverse curves at all.

On my outdoor layout I have no curves less than LGB radius 2 and they tend to behave quite well now, given all the work that has been done!

My view is the same as Malcolm that given that this range is primarily a toy, they should have used hidden 2 wheel bogies on the longer wheelbase stock (like LGB and Playmobil) and fitted flexible coupling mountings.

I really do not advocate adding any extra weight. They can be made to run well without this and I can vouch for this. The same is true of Playmobil stock. I take the extra weight block out of all mine and they run beautifully without it.

Good luck,
James
 
Guys,

To support the above here are a couple of images. These don`t show the centre spring that was added later, but I hope that they help explain what I did.

The first shows a chum`s design for Annie and Clarabel.

The second is my own original design for Emily`s coach. This was later fitted with a centering spring and works very well too

James
[attachimg=3][attachimg=4]
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2125.JPG
    IMG_2125.JPG
    95.3 KB · Views: 62
  • IMG_2126.JPG
    IMG_2126.JPG
    69.6 KB · Views: 53
James Day said:
Guys,

I had a lot of trouble getting my TTE stock to run properly. They were incredibly unforgiving and fell off the rails when and where no other stock did, so I tried a number of modifications....
Click to expand...

Cheers for the advice. Good to know it is not just me!

Will try making sure my track is level first and then look at the alterations mentioned here.

Thanks

Rob
 
to the question, how much weight:
i have some elderly one foot long four wheeled playmobil cars, that run fine on sharp curves.
they came with lead plates clipped under the car body. each lead plate weights 180 grams. (one on each car)

the whole problem seems to lie in the length of four wheeled cars.
my newqida freightcars, 35 cm long, 4 wheels, truckmounted couplers, tend to derail everywhere.
but a scratchbuilt car of the same length, 8 wheels, with some crappy Dickie trucks (yes, those horrible things, with whels, that have rounded flanges!) has no problem whatever with my rollercoaster track.

when i have a car, that derails frequently, the first thing i do is to outfit one truck with a washer between carbody and truck. very often the resulting slack is enough, to keep the cars on track.
 
Interesting Korm,

Never thought of length between trucks or bogies being an issue, weight or no weight. The trucks either keep the track of they don't. If extra weight was needed, I would thought it needs to be on the trucks/bogies ideally metal wheels?

I would be looking at how well the trucks move in relation to any twists and irregularities in the track. They need to be free to move to follow these. If the mounting is too rigid, this will cause de-rialments.

The Bachmann TTE range already has plenty of weight by virtue of substantial cast wheels and metal axles.

There are two key problems with these that I can see - They are incredibly rigid and have no lateral give at all. Plus they are often mounted far too far apart, near the ends of the vehicles, without any steering, as with Playmobil and LGB. The Emily/Xmas coach and the brake van are the worst!. On sharp curves the wheels are presented to the rails at ridiculous angles causing epic binding and grinding.

All you need now is to add in a little track twist and off the rails you go!

Fantastic! Who designed this range, or is design too strong a term? It is lovely looking but so badly thought through!

James
 
The easiest, and most constant solution is to improve the track. That works whatever vehicle is used on it.
 
Of course you are right.

We should all run the G scale equivalent of the Great Western Mainline from Paddington to Bristol. A virtual billiard table of a railway.

What everyone seems to forget is that the Bachmann TTE range is toy aimed a children who ought to be able to play with it where and how they like, without being master members of the institute or permanent way engineers.

Also no matter how good the track is unless you have really gentle large radius curves the binding issue with rigid long wheelbase items is not one that will be going away.

I stand by my criticisms of this range it could be far more user friendly.

James
 
No doubt on that score you are correct. Flange shape has a great deal to do with binding. A more rounded profile would improve rolling resistance and rail climbing no end in those circumstances, but there is no need for "billiard table" accuracy with track, just keep taking out the worst transgressions and things will settle down to an acceptable level and then visiting stock will not have many problems either. Seems the common sense approach to me.

Usually a derailment occurs when the rocking across corners exceeds the depth of the flange and there is a slight side thrust. Keep the flanges inside the groove and you have won.
 
Bobg,

"Usually a derailment occurs when the rocking across corners exceeds the depth of the flange and there is a slight side thrust. Keep the flanges inside the groove and you have won."

yes. that is spot on.
the worst places are changes in grade, where curves are involved.


James,

when i scratchbuild cars with fixed aixles, the longest distance that i use between aixles is 8cm.
anything longer and the wheels are at too sharp an angle to the rails in R1 curves.

regarding the length, i think, that the longer the cars, the higher the sideways twists can be.

btw, if you slacken both trucks, the car will rock like a cradle.
in another forum i read something interesting about this.
that guy fixed some wires/rods on the underside of the carbodies.
for one truck going from side to side, for the other one going lengthwise.
so one truck has slack for gradechanges, the other for sideways twists.

edit:
just got an idea...
might be, it helps for cars with fixed aixles, to make the bearings for one aixle vertically bigger and a support in the middle of the aixle, so that it can go up and down in the bearings...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top