Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

Charles M

Charles M

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I have an Accucraft "Earl " and have made a pair of what I presume are headcode lights. One red and one white one . What is the significance of the colour and location on the locomotive when they are used? They look very nice mounted on the engine and I would like to use the proper one for my freight and/or passenger trains when I am running.

Thanks very much.

Charles M :)
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

GW confuses the issue here!
The red bodied lamp is used as a headlamp and it's white, (or oily yellow light), denotes the front of the train, it's purely a marker and has no useful illumination as far as seeing where you're going, powered by a oil tank in the base of the lamp.

The white lamp has a red lens and is used on the back of the train to denote the back so would be used on the rear of the brake van or the rear of the loco if running on it's own.

Slightly odd as logically you'd put the red lens in the red lamp so it was still red at the rear even if not lit!

Other companies used white bodied lamps throughout with coloured lenses, white at the head and red at the rear.
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

Just to follow up on what Paul says - British railway practice was to fit lights to the front of standard gauge locos in order to designate the type of train that they were hauling, but things were usually less formal on narrow gauge lines where a single lamp was used purely to designate the front of the train (clear light) or the rear (red light).

Most photos of the W&LLR show the loco headlamp on the right hand side above the buffer beam alongside the smokebox irrespective of the type of train (passenger, mixed, goods). Lamp brackets were fitted to allow positioning on the left side of the smokebox and at the base of the chimney, but don't appear to have been used very often. Of course, being tank locos, The Countess and The Earl spent 50% of their lives running bunker first, and they are usually shown carrying a lamp on the lower right bracket then too.
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

I think the answer is possibly a bit simpler (and maybe more confusing) than Paul says. The W&L now uses both red bodied and white bodied lamps. It would make sense if the red bodied lamps had red lenses and the white bodied lamps had clear lenses so they could be used as unlit markers during times of good visibility (with the red bodies/red lensed lamp on the rear). It may well be that the lamps were used unlit during daytime to save on the expense of burning paraffin unnecessarily. These light railways were always looking for ways to save money. Maybe someone replaced the red lens in a red bodied lamp with a clear lens.
As far as marker lights go, on the front there is a number of lamp brackets and the classification of the train can be indicated depending on what lamps are hung where. However, that really only applies to the main line where it is useful for signalmen (and others) to be able to identify the class of passing trains. On the W&L there was usually only one engine in steam, no intermediate signal boxes (Castle Caereinion was used for only a short period) and trains were usually either freight or mixed, so a single lamp on the buffer beam would suffice.
Steve
390fb5e61d104e5196ffd262a9953180.jpg
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

400Parker said:
It would make sense if the red bodied lamps had red lenses and the white bodied lamps had clear lenses ...
Click to expand...
Yes, but this is the GWR we are talking about! From my days at the Severn Valley Railway I know that:

- Red lamps have clear lenses and are used as loco headlamps...
swindon_001.jpg


- White lamps had red lenses and were used as train tail lamps, although they were much bigger than a loco lamp.
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

Bizarre! I was going to say in my original reply that there are people out there who will be able to give Charles the definitive answer and educate me, so thanks Tony. I think my comments about the headcodes still apply, but I'm willing to be educated about that too. I must look at the pictures in my W&L books to refresh my memory.
Cheers!
Steve
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

Aha! I've just come across this on another forum.
The following circular was allegedly issued by C.B.Collett on 22nd December 1936 (this concerns the colour of the body of the lamps, not their lenses).
"It has been agreed that in future engine head lamps and train tail lamps shall be painted white instead of red.
The change will be gradual. After the present stock is exhausted, all new lamps will be painted white and this colour should be used, commencing at once, for repainting head and tail lamps sent in for repairs.
Side lamps will continue to be painted black.
During the transition period, arrangements should be made at the sheds to ensure that engines of passenger and auto trains are provided with two lamps of one colour.
Will you please make the necessary arrangements so far as you are concerned, and acknowledge receipt.
Yours truly, C.B.Collett"

so I guess it may depend on what era of the W&L you're modelling Charles! As Paul said, the GWR confuses the issue!
Steve
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

400Parker said:
Side lamps will continue to be painted black.
Click to expand...
This is all interesting stuff, but just to avoid any further confusion Charles, don't worry about side lamps. Once again they were used for standard gauge. I'm fairly certain that narrow gauge lines did not worry themselves with such things.
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

I'll have to scour the W&L book photos but I wonder if they ever used multi lamp headcodes? Admittedly the unfitted freight would have to be driven very carefully on their gradients but I wonder how much faster a pure passenger train might have run.
One thing to note is each major company had it's own headcodes as did their constituents before 1923 and as Steve notes they changed at various times. Interestingly the GW, LMS and SR all had well known narrow gauge lines but the LNER didn't showing a Distinct West bias for passenger carrying NG.
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

A perusal of pre-preservation photos shows the following:
[*]a single red lamp on the left side of the buffer beam from c 1925 until at least 1952[*]a single white-bodied lamp in the same situation from about 1941 until 1956[*]Nothing at all in 1947[*]The lamp in the right position but at the wrong end of the loco c1952[*]Lamps of different shapes - until c1936, what look like ex-Cambrian lamps, then standard GW lamps. (The chuffed2bits lamps represent these, not the rather boxy Cambrian models). So, you pays your money and you takes your choice. No doubt, Mr Collett's words took time to reach Welshpool... (As the Chinese say, the emperor is far away and there are high mountains in between).

GH
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

PaulRhB said:
I'll have to scour the W&L book photos but I wonder if they ever used multi lamp headcodes? Admittedly the unfitted freight would have to be driven very carefully on their gradients but I wonder how much faster a pure passenger train might have run.
Click to expand...

No point really Paul. As Steve mentioned earlier, there was no signalman to see them on the W&LLR.
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

Well, I had a look through two authoritative books on the W&L by Ralph Cartwright and Glyn Williams, and I couldn't find any pictures of locos with lamps other than a single one on the left hand side (as Graham wrote above) in GWR or BR days. (This is as shown for Class J, above.) The lamps could either have red bodies or white bodies depending on the era. In the preservation era there are pictures of two lamps in the configurations of either Class A or Class E. So there you have it Charles! I hope all that helps.
Steve
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

yb281 said:
No point really Paul. As Steve mentioned earlier, there was no signalman to see them on the W&LLR.
Click to expand...
And little chance of wrong routing it ;) There are precedents though as some NG railways thought it made them look more important and used multiple lamp headcodes. I just never recollected it on W&L pictures as proved by Steve but they did allow for it by having the brackets so was it considered at some point?
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

I invoke RULE 8!

I will run my head and tail lights on my W&L locos stock where the hell it looks best!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

Thanks for all of the replys.
As the "Earl " is modelled as it is in preserved form , I can use what I want and still be right it would appear. .
Charles M
 
Re:Question on W&L Earl"s headcode lights

PaulRhB said:
yb281 said:
No point really Paul. As Steve mentioned earlier, there was no signalman to see them on the W&LLR.
Click to expand...
And little chance of wrong routing it ;) There are precedents though as some NG railways thought it made them look more important and used multiple lamp headcodes. I just never recollected it on W&L pictures as proved by Steve but they did allow for it by having the brackets so was it considered at some point?
Click to expand...
Standard fitment on the Cambrian and GWR I'd imagine Paul? Actually, same goes for some of the WGLR's locos. :bigsmile:
 
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