relate experience with bachman porter and climax and 3 truck shay please

stevedenver

stevedenver

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i am dyed in the wool LGB guy-want to run and hnadle without problems-leave outdoors as i like

i have the original 35t shay-which was a PITA until i replaced the old trucks with the new ones-
and despite great care and limited useage-a few bits have broken

what are the new climax, new porter and 3 truck shay like-the last has gotten mixed to mostly negative comments on the US forum)

i really like these loco types-especially the climax- (heard the first version was not good and very finniky about track as well) -but i swore id never again buy a bachman product after the headaches i had and miserable customer support regarding my original old shay (which i quite like now -due mostly to my own hours of tinkering to make it right-as well as replacement parts for the oringal defective ones)

i cannot stand to have hundreds of dollars in a great looking but poor running loco -a real point of frustration -and im no longer willing to kn owingly purchase something with the risk of spending a day or more at the bench re-engineering a bad bit of product

what i really like is a reliable loco -runs well out of the box and again after being in the box for months or a year or more

experiences ???
 
I'm afraid I have not had the models you speak of but I have had a Connie and a 45 tonner fail badly on me and so like you have my confidence shaken. I have decided to avoid unless I can ever afford one of their monsters from the DRGW or am buying non runners for bashing. I have nothing LGB or USA Trains fail.
 
Apart from a US LGB Starter Set and an LGB Forney all of my locomotives / nearly all of my rolling stock are Bachmann. Personally I have never had any problems with them.

I have one of the original Bachmann Climax locomotives (I can?t justify re-buying the new version just for the DCC Socket) which is a great runner. I am currently restricted to running my locomotives Indoors so they do not get exposed to the elements so cannot comment on leaving them outside.

The only issues I have had with Bachmann products have been from user error . Bachmann are defiantly listening to the public and the recent release of the LYN with the improved gears shows that things are improving.

Will be interested to see other peoples opinions on this :)
 
I have most of the Bachmann locos apart from the new Climax which is too expensive and find all those made in the past 7 or 8 years run well, you need to treat them as models and not toys though. They have more detail and look more real than LGB but the closer to scale details are fragile. Early Connies, Shay, Climaxes and other locos all seem to have the gears fail due to the plastic shrinking and splitting; the recent locos have much better gears and I guess the new Climax with metal gears should be pretty tough.
The Acucraft brass locos are much stonger and look similar but cost between 3 and 5 times the price, if you want a loco that will last longer save your money and buy an Accucraft otherwise you just have to accept than fine details on plastic loco will get knocked off in the garden.
I like the new Porters and find them more robust than some other Bachmann locos.
 
You shouldn't leave anybrand of locos outside as the modern electrics fail quite quickly with any damp being them Bachmann, LGB, Aristo-Craft or others. Wind blown dust with also b*****r the moving parts.
 
Steve,
I am a LGB collector, but I run Bachmann locomotives. Apart from the truck issues, the split gear issues and pre version '5' Big Hauler 4-6-0's, the B'mann range is relatively good for an 'inexpensive' loco.

All models have had their 'issues'. The live truck models all suffer from electrical contact breakdown and generally the trucks need to be hardwired. The first release Climax had a 'solid' drive connection between the front and rear trucks. Second gen fixed this with a breakout clutch. 45-tonner was a good loco but unloved. Heisler was very good but also suffered driveline and truck electrical issues. Connie and Mikado each had their well versed issues. Once these are corrected they make outstanding locomotives.

Biggest issue with the 4-6-0 is that operators still continue to run on R1 track. While supposedly designed for this diameter, they are much happier and more reliable on larger diameter track. I have built around fifteen custom 4-6-0's based on the Anniversary model and after rebuilding they are very reliable locomotives. Second biggest enemy of the 4-6-0, apart from R1 track, is the Bachmann assembly line workforce. I have dismantled many, many, Annies and have seen just about every bit of lack of quality control in assembly that one could imagine.

3-truck Shay is a no-no. Rigid electrical connections and poor DCC control make for an expensive white elephant. I really like them but will never buy one.

The new Forney and Climax are very nice locomotives, but suffer from the Marklin malady. If the customer wants one then he can pay through the nose for one!
 
Regarding Bachmann Porters, I had two of the newer versions and neither ran as well as the old model. Ended up selling them and buying a couple of the old ones back - just make sure you get the ones with metal side rods. I'm sure this probably isn't typical but I'm just relating what happened to me. The newer Porters are slightly bigger though and would probably look better with LGB stock.
 
The issue's I had with my Connie almost made me want to leave the hobby I was so dissapointed :brokeheart: I like Porter the tanks though and the new 2-4-2 tank is reckoned to be a great improvement on the old so perhaps there is reason for optomism looking forward:thumbup:
 
I've no experience with the spendy Bochmanns.
However,
I had a 1st generation Bug Mauler (battery) - it was a total PoS (Piece of Sh**)
I had a second gen Bug Mauler - It was ALMOST a total PoS
I shied away from them for over a decade.
I now have a non-Annie 5th gen. It seems acceptable, but I really haven't run it that much.
I have a Connie as well. Other than the usual gear probs, the brake rigging shorting out across the flanges and a roasted circuit board, it's been ok.

Bachmann's quality HAS improved, and they may get there eventually.... They also may be "listening to the consumers" more, but IMHO they're listening to the wrong ones. There's a LOT more 'around the tree', and 'gift from grandpa' buyers out there than there are folks lining up for the next "super-de-duper over-priced and requires a layout the size of Nebraska" pig - no matter HOW vocal the latter are. If they were listening to me, I'd say: 1. If you really want the hobby (and your customer base!) to grow, then a $79 loco will attract a lot more folks than a $799 one! 2. Trying to compete head to head with Accucraft is folly. Even if you undercut them by 1/2, if your product is less than stellar from the get go, it's going to cost you! and 3. Sending somebody to China to oversee your qc problems is actually cheaper in the long run than the warrantee replacements and lost sales due to a bad reputation - only a total idiot (or a MBA!) would think otherwise
 
Mik said:
Sending somebody to China to oversee your qc problems is actually cheaper in the long run than the warrantee replacements and lost sales due to a bad reputation - only a total idiot (or a MBA!) would think otherwise
Click to expand...

Amen to that! :@
 
One thing you can do with the Climax is to free up the drive shaft connection in the box shaped slider one side. The trucks tend to bind if the drive connection runs continuously from one end to the other. Typically the solution is to take the square section of the rear drive shaft and grind/file it to round cross section, making sure that the resulting round section remains a nice snug fit in the square pocket. The valve gear and chuff switches will still function from the front drive shaft.

This will do away with the stuttering that occurs when the power trucks get out of sync and start binding the shaft, especially on tighter radii.

So there
 
I use all makes of locos and, though I leave a certain amount of rolling stock out in the elements all the time (well protected metal bits with vaseline and wd40), I never leave locos out. This is due to the fact that although they may be fine in a shower, they will not stand up to the more penetrating damp of cold morning dew etc.

I have Bachmann locos:
3 x Anniversary 4-6-0 with metal rods, 2x Climax (not the new variety), 2 x 2-truck shay (one 2nd issue and one of the last issue), 1 x 3-truck shay, 1 X heisler, 1 x K27 mikado, a very old 2-4-2 and also a brand new one....
and the problems......

Well, the K27 had to have the new counterweights installed as it was an early run issue but totally fine after that.
The old 2-4-2 stripped a gear and was replaced practically gratis by Bachamnn with a brand new one.
One Annie had to have the contacts worked on but nothing major.
One of the climaxes needed to have installed the 'later' friction clutch linkage (this was already on the other climax)

Other than that ......absolutely no problems. I do lubricate all gearing/running gear at least once a year (but I also do this with my LGB, Aristocraft and Accucraft steamers).
Bachmann have made some really excellent to look at locos but as has been said before on this thread....they are not toys and are generally more detailed than their LGB counterparts. Detail plus weight does need careful handling ( Try just lifting an Accucraft or Bachmann K27 like you could with a lesser detailed LGB and see how those little bits of detail stand up!)...same goes for the Aristocraft Mallet!
I have the LGB Sumpter and Uintah mallets and they do not have the heft of the Bachmann or Aristocraft jobbies so their detail is safer to the touch.....well, with my paws anyway!
 
I'll admit none of my locos get flogged to death, they're run a little from time to time and looked after. All have been DCC chipped.

As far as my Bachie roster goes: 3-truck shay, connie, mallet, davenport all super smooth runners and no problems at all, apart from weak tender bogie sideframes on the connie which is a known issue and easily fixed. My old Baldwin 2-4-2T is pretty good if you keep the wheels clean and ignore the growl!

I'm intrigued by the previous comments about the 3-truck shay not well thought of, I'll have to go have a surf around the forums. As said above, no probs with mine. I know about the problems with the factory DCC/sound not liking high track voltage. I bought a non-DCC and fitted a QSI myself.
 
I'd agree with the comments that Bachmann are designed as scale models rather than just for playing trains so they do have finer separate details that will break so it's worth building a carrybox for their larger models to allow them to be slid out straight onto track.
I had a first gen climax and it ran beautifully although it handled average track well it certainly didn't have enough play in the bogies for any rough track and tended to tip over. The gears on driving axles issues weren't due to shrinkage but due to the splines on the axle being too big for the plastic gear so it was under too much stress and wear and tear inevitably caused it to move and eventually crack. The Connies drive train gears were a bit weedy and I had a tooth shear off. The new mechanisms have much more sturdy drives and with sensible lubrication should last better than ltns plastic gears.
 
PaulRhB said:
... it's worth building a carrybox for their larger models to allow them to be slid out straight onto track.
Click to expand...
That's a good point, some sort of carrier is beneficial. Mine all live in their original boxes, and I realised early on that if you slit open the plastic bag lengthwise it makes a useful sling to carry the loco from box to track.
 
Woderwick said:
One thing you can do with the Climax is to free up the drive shaft connection in the box shaped slider one side. The trucks tend to bind if the drive connection runs continuously from one end to the other. Typically the solution is to take the square section of the rear drive shaft and grind/file it to round cross section, making sure that the resulting round section remains a nice snug fit in the square pocket. The valve gear and chuff switches will still function from the front drive shaft.

This will do away with the stuttering that occurs when the power trucks get out of sync and start binding the shaft, especially on tighter radii.

So there
Click to expand...

You only need to fix the first batch of early Climax locos as they changed the design to have a slip joint after the square slider joints and you only need to oil this very light oil to ensure to can turn if the motors get out of sync. If you have a first batch loco an easier and less unsightly fix is to shave off the teeth from the plastic drive shaft gear in the rear gearbox, disconnecting the rear motor.
 
My entire track powered fleet are now Bachmann products - 2 x K-27's, Connie, Anny', Centenial, Fourney, 3 truck Shay and a 2-6-6-2 - I love them as models and they work well. My line has min' 4 foot curves and 6 foot switches and I make sure that there are sufficiant clearances to the sides and above to accommodate them, particularly the K-27's & Connie.

The only problems I have encountered are, 1) A burnt out suppressor unit on the Centenial that was quickly diagnosed and fixed with the aid of the good folk on this forum. 2) Some fried wiring in the tender and ashpan areas that was easily accessed an replaced - Cause ? I think i just found the answer earlier in this thread. Now I know what to look out for to avoid a repeat in the future. There is a good level of knowledge about Bachmann products here if you need it.

Otherwise I think these locos represent good value for money - if you keep an eye out for good deals and little used 2nd hand examples. Just make sure you service them as per the instructions and look out for loose screws and fittings when new.

As far as handling goes - take a good look the first time out the box and work out the best place to lft them - usually a hand each under the smoke box and the under the rear of the cab roof. When servicing the molded styro-foam box top makes a good stable support. Yes, I have dropped one off the table that wasn't properly supported. Guess what - hardly a scratch and any bent bits easily fixed - they are a lot more robust and cleverly designed than they might appear or be given credit for.
Max.
 
thanks to all for the comments

i think ill wait a year or so for the new climax to go on close out
 
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