Roundhouse Jack gas filling problem

dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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Yes more problems with my Roundhouse Jack.

I have a pretty old Jack that I am unable to get gas into the gas tank.

I have changed the Gas filler Valve for a new one, in fact I even swopped out a working one on one of my other Roundhouse Locomotives and this did not work on Jack either but when returned to my other loco still worked OK.

The gas can and locomotive have both been standing in my workshop for some days so no difference in heat issues, in fact the room is unheated and I can gas up my other 2 Roundhouse locomotives with no problem.

I have tested the gas filling valve in my fingers and gas passes through when the tank is pressed on it.

Any ideas please?
 
Is the filler valve in a recess on the tank? - Perhaps it sits lower in the model, and the neck of the gas canister is fouling, so not pressing far enough to let gas enter the tank?

PhilP
 
PhilP said:
Is the filler valve in a recess on the tank? - Perhaps it sits lower in the model, and the neck of the gas canister is fouling, so not pressing far enough to let gas enter the tank?

PhilP
Click to expand...
Thanks for that thought Phil, but the valve is proud and the tank filled many times previously with the same filler attachment to the gas tank. I have 2 others and they also having a no fill effect on Jack but working fine on my other Roundhouse locs.
 
Sounds like some sort of blockage somewhere....
 
Is gas escaping from between the filler and the adapter at all? And I assume the gas valve is closed. If so, as Gizzy says, it seems like a blockage somewhere in the tank.
A daft suggestion, but have you tried lighting the loco with what gas there may be in the tank?
 
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Could the tank be full, and it is the gas valve on the loco (or a blocked jet) making it appear that there is no gas?

PhilP
 
Paul M said:
Is gas escaping from between the filler and the adapter at all? And I assume the gas valve is closed. If so, as Gizzy says, it seems like a blockage somewhere in the tank.
A daft suggestion, but have you tried lighting the loco with what gas there may be in the tank?
Click to expand...
No when trying to fill it is as if the gas valve is not working, but no leak from the sides like you get when the tank is full. I am not sure how the tank could be blocked inside but will take the filler valve off and have a poke around with some soft wire.
PhilP said:
Could the tank be full, and it is the gas valve on the loco (or a blocked jet) making it appear that there is no gas?

PhilP
Click to expand...
When I first tried the loco there was some gas in, it was coming out very weak the burner popped but never took on. I removed the jet with its pipe from the burner, turned the gas on and had a good flow of gas. Changed the jet and no difference.
 
Gizzy said:
Sounds like some sort of blockage somewhere....
Click to expand...
Paul M said:
Is gas escaping from between the filler and the adapter at all? And I assume the gas valve is closed. If so, as Gizzy says, it seems like a blockage somewhere in the tank.
A daft suggestion, but have you tried lighting the loco with what gas there may be in the tank?
Click to expand...
PhilP said:
Could the tank be full, and it is the gas valve on the loco (or a blocked jet) making it appear that there is no gas?

PhilP
Click to expand...
Curiouser and curiouser. I took the gas filler valve out after an attempted fill, there was a slight exit if gas from the tank but very little. Then I prodded some wire into the tank to get a mass leak of gas. I then put the filler back in whereupon gas appeared to be entering the tank as normal, but leaking gas indicated full after a very short time. So then I opened the gas regulator, very little sound as if the gas was stuck in the tank. So remove filler again to little gas emerging, prod and big leak. Another prod gave an even bigger leak so the tank was quite full. It is as if a thin layer of ice is being created after each fill of the tank, being broken by my prodding with a piece of wire.

So still stumped, why just this tank? Perhaps a call to Roundhouse after the festivities may result in an answer, but in the meantime I think I will try an unopened new gas bottle
 
A lot of condensation in the tank, perhaps? - It would only take a small amount of ice to block the valve/jet.

Perhaps put the loco in the airing cupboard overnight?
With the filler removed, and the burner valve fully open?

PhilP
 
PhilP said:
A lot of condensation in the tank, perhaps? - It would only take a small amount of ice to block the valve/jet.

Perhaps put the loco in the airing cupboard overnight?
With the filler removed, and the burner valve fully open?

PhilP
Click to expand...
Not if it is a gas boiler!!!
 
JimmyB said:
Not if it is a gas boiler!!!
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Why?
I am suggesting an empty (but possibly damp) already opened model.. - There should be a residual smell, but very little actual gas.

The central heating boiler (if in the airing cupboard) has a sealed flue, venting to/from outside..

PhilP
 
PhilP said:
A lot of condensation in the tank, perhaps? - It would only take a small amount of ice to block the valve/jet.

Perhaps put the loco in the airing cupboard overnight?
With the filler removed, and the burner valve fully open?

PhilP
Click to expand...
That's a good thought, obviously with the temperature fluctuations of late, condensation is rife. And cold gas could well freeze any minute droplets
 
Thanks guys, looks like we could have a solution. Why this occurred with just Jack I do not know, all have been stored in the house on the same shelf but possibly could be that Jack has a a square format gas tank whereas Russel and Stanley have round ones. I left the gas filler valve off last night after a good prod to release any possibly frozen gas and we shall see what occurs later today.

I was last messing with Jack a few weeks back when the weather was really freezing so that may have made an Ice block with Gas that was already present and the new lot caused a block when I filled it outside in the cold. Will report back later.
 
Ok so yesterday I managed to light Jack but again very short burn time in spite of gas tank apparently full. Hm. Went to Peterborough yesterday with my pal who is in need of cataract work. He is a bit of a scientist type also interested in model railways. His view was that apparently the tank would appear to have damp condensation inside the gas tank but was totally stumped by the 3 apparent zones of gas in the tank. This could be creating a small ice layer between the varying gas fills.

Then the light bulb moment (I hope) looking at the rough drawing below you can see that I had put some gaffa tape in EDIT ON the tank, this was to disguise and hold in place a new set of wires for the battery. Note from the green lines that sirt of indicates the 3 zones created and the orange to represent the tape that does not cover the whole of the side but I wonder could it have neen this that has created a slight difference in the apparent heat/cold absorption of the tank giving in effect 2 ice tops to the 3 gas zones? Well tape has been removed and the loco is in a very warm room hopefully to dry out and condensation in the tank. The saga continues.
IMG_7788.png
 
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John Randall said:
Could there piece of loose solder floating about in the tank that restricts or blocks the exit ?
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Thanks but I think the findings in post #15 have resolved the issue. I have done a couple of steam ups since then plus I think the solder may have shown itself many years ago. I have probably had this loco getting of for 30 years now.
 
I was looking for something else and found my previous thread about Jack problems, to keep things in mind I am posting link to previous issues here. Looks like some of it may have been linked between both threads. Perhaps I will merge the 2 threads.

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