Ruby's O cylinder rings

S

Sarah Winfield

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That kind Graham from Accucraft has sent me replacement O rings for my Ruby.
Now I must pluck up the courage and fit them.
There is a post on U tube (I think) about this but it doesn't go into detail.
Has anyone replaced those O rings, please?
I know I must remove the connecting rods from the wheels to allow the rods to be removed from the cylinders.
But then I have to un-do 4 tiny Phillips-headed screws (2 on each cylinder) holding the cylinder backplate.
Now I am both unlucky and clumsy, ask my Brother.,
I would welcome any help and advice, please.
Many thanks
 
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I bought some Butane gas from Screwfix this morning.
I took a note of what I wanted Multigas 200.
The shop hadn't got Multigas 200 but had got Multigas 300. I assumed the 200/300 referred to the quantity of gas as the 300 canister was larger than the 200.
However, I have now noted the 200 canister says 100% butane whereas the 300 says 35% propane and 65% butane.
Can I use the 300 or do I exchange it for the 200, please?
Thanks in advance,
Sarah
 
Sarah Winfield said:
I bought some Butane gas from Screwfix this morning.
I took a note of what I wanted Multigas 200.
The shop hadn't got Multigas 200 but had got Multigas 300. I assumed the 200/300 referred to the quantity of gas as the 300 canister was larger than the 200.
However, I have now noted the 200 canister says 100% butane whereas the 300 says 35% propane and 65% butane.
Can I use the 300 or do I exchange it for the 200, please?
Thanks in advance,
Sarah
Click to expand...
For summer use butane only is the best bet, a mix is good for outside use in very cold weather.
 
If you use the mix, do not leave the (fuel) tank full, expansion rate of propane is greater than butane and the tank will have been built to account for butane expansion.
 
stevedenver said:
Cant help, but
work over a towel to help prevent screws from bouncing and getting lost.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice, Steve. in fact the fixings are not Phillips screws but hexagon nuts.

SW
JimmyB said:
If you use the mix, do not leave the (fuel) tank full, expansion rate of propane is greater than butane and the tank will have been built to account for butane expansion.
Click to expand...
The instructions for my Ruby say:- "The firing system has been designed to use butane gas only. Never use any other gas (including propane or butane/propane mix) as the storage pressure can reach unsafe levels.
I guess that answers my question.
 
Sarah Winfield said:
Thanks for the advice, Steve. in fact the fixings are not Phillips screws but hexagon nuts.

SW

The instructions for my Ruby say:- "The firing system has been designed to use butane gas only. Never use any other gas (including propane or butane/propane mix) as the storage pressure can reach unsafe levels.
I guess that answers my question.
Click to expand...
Also, if you can, take pictures as you go, so you know what went where.
It's always best to follow manufacturers' instructions, but I use a mix in cold weather on my Accucraft locos
 
At times it can be quite tricky to find Butane only. I used to be able to rely on Halfords but then they started with mix Butane / Propane cans. I managed to pick up a pack of a dozen Butane only cans at the 16mm show a year or 3 ago and they have kept me going for my limited steamings. Most DIY sheds these days appear to have only Mix. But that can change like the wind!
 
I use this type of gas:

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With one of these to take the Roundhouse adaptor:

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So called Butane, is often not pure..

It can be called 'Butane', but be up-to 23% Propane.

All this talk of low pressure, in loco gas tanks, is rubbish.. Initially, you are putting liquified gas into the tank. As this turns back to a gas, it expands greatly. You can easily get ten-times the pressure of your boiler, in the gas tank.
 
PhilP said:
So called Butane, is often not pure..

It can be called 'Butane', but be up-to 23% Propane.

All this talk of low pressure, in loco gas tanks, is rubbish.. Initially, you are putting liquified gas into the tank. As this turns back to a gas, it expands greatly. You can easily get ten-times the pressure of your boiler, in the gas tank.
Click to expand...
Phil, dependant on temperature these hydrocarbon gasses turn to liquid/gas at different pressures, so at 25 C temperature Butane:

Vapor pressure at 25oC (psia, MN/m2)35.4, 0.244

Propane:

Vapor pressure at 25oC (psia, MN/m2)135.7, 0.936

As you see this is where the problem is the same quantity of propane is near 4 time the pressure of Butane at the same temperature. analysis of hydrocarbon fuels was part of a previous job.
 
I have also seen someone wandering out of a club house, with a steaming kettle, on a cold day..
Not the thing to ever fill a gas tank water bath with!

I was not aware of the exact figures (for relative expansion) but was aware of the pressure that could result.
The filler valves, on model gas tanks, will tend to fail before the tank will rupture. Anecdotally, this will be at about 450psi, but can be more like 600psi.
It blows the centre of the valve out, never to be seen again. :eek:
 
I managed to return the butane/propane mix canisters and obtained 2 x 100% butane from my local Screwfix depot.
Now I can run my Ruby and B4 with the right fuel.
Thank you to everyone who contributed to my thread.
 
Are you still needing to replace the O-rings? I did this on my new-to-me Accucraft Caledonia during one of the lockdowns; the principles may be the same. Obviously you'll need to check the details, as our two locos may not be the same. I suggest you work on one side at a time so the original version is there for reference when you do the first one, and then (hopefully!) have the correctly completed one to refer to when tackling the other side.

On my loco the nut holding the connecting rods onto the wheels was secured with threadlock -I had to apply gentle heat to the nut with a small gas torch to soften it; it then turned easily. I can't recall if the bolts on the cylinder end-covers were threadlocked or not, but it's worth bearing in mind that they may be. There were some paper gaskets -these will need replacing if they tear during dismantling. Mine did, but it was several years old.

And with everything -and especially the tightening up- take your time and go easy. If something needs force to loosen it, think what may be stopping it turning. Likewise with re-assembly: engineers talk about 'nipping up' nuts and bolts, i.e. applying just enough force to tighten the joint. If something leaks you can always give it an extra fraction of a turn; but if you over-tighten the chances are you will strip a thread or -worse- shear a bolt/screw, which will result in a heap of grief. And remember to replace threadlock and PTFE tape wherever you find it used...

Good luck!
 
Thank you Patrick for your input, very helpful.

The connecting rods are held on the wheels with "C" type clips. There are warnings on the web to ensure one doesn't see them "zing" across the room and to use a towel to stop small nuts etc being lost.

I've managed to find a small box spanner for the cylinder backplate nuts.

I do wish I had someone to guide me through this, but I don't.

Sarah
 
Sarah Winfield said:
Thank you Patrick for your input, very helpful.

The connecting rods are held on the wheels with "C" type clips. There are warnings on the web to ensure one doesn't see them "zing" across the room and to use a towel to stop small nuts etc being lost.

I've managed to find a small box spanner for the cylinder backplate nuts.

I do wish I had someone to guide me through this, but I don't.

Sarah
Click to expand...
You know this already, but there's plenty of experience on here -just shout.
 
Sarah Winfield said:
Thank you Patrick for your input, very helpful.

The connecting rods are held on the wheels with "C" type clips. There are warnings on the web to ensure one doesn't see them "zing" across the room and to use a towel to stop small nuts etc being lost.

I've managed to find a small box spanner for the cylinder backplate nuts.

I do wish I had someone to guide me through this, but I don't.

Sarah
Click to expand...
Can you not join your nearest 16mm Association group?
 
Sarah Winfield said:
"The firing system has been designed to use butane gas only. Never use any other gas (including propane or butane/propane mix) as the storage pressure can reach unsafe levels.
Click to expand...
Accucraft provides a certificate for the boiler test AND the gas tank test these days, I think. There must be some jurisdiction in this world that worries about tank pressures (Germany?) Accucraft also puts a brass sign on the tank "Butane Only".
Despite all that, almost everyone running in cold weather uses the mix of propane/butane and I never heard of a tank problem.
PhilP said:
I have also seen someone wandering out of a club house, with a steaming kettle, on a cold day..
Not the thing to ever fill a gas tank water bath with!
Click to expand...
I have a photo of our intrepid live steamers running in 35 F deg weather. I used a small electric kettle to warm the boiler water and also to pour on the gas tank [though it wasn't boiling at the time.] After the run there was ice on the tank from the warm water I poured on it, due to the cooling as the gas evaporated.
 
Sarah Winfield said:
I've managed to find a small box spanner for the cylinder backplate nuts.

I do wish I had someone to guide me through this, but I don't.
Click to expand...
As Patrick says, we're here to advise. Just post pics as you go.

You'll probably find the hex bolts on the cylinder end plate are heavily covered in black paint, and the paint may chip off - black acrylic from the craft store is a good replacement, or a paint pen. The bolts are usually M3 but with the paint you may need a 1/8th" (3.2mm) spanner.

Vance Bass rebuilt one a few years ago and posted lots of photos:
Stripping down and rebuilding an Accucraft "Ruby"
He says in the thread in 2020 he had a spare set of cylinders.

Also you might note that there was a larger cylinder kit supplied to improve the Ruby - makes it more controllable. If your cylinders need a rebuild anyway, this might be a way to go? You'd have to ask around to find a kit though - I don't think they are in production.
 
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