Secondhand purchases.

[Neil Robinson]

So, IF I was looking at a secondhand live steam engine, apart from the obvious signs of abuse, are there any more subtle things to look for? I would never buy one without very careful inspection beforehand. But just wondered if there were any tips the learned folk on here could give me about what to watch out for.

To take the above statement literally there's more to live steam than the eye alone may detect.
Two new nominally identical machines, model or prototype, may perform differently in service.
There's a lot to be said for try before you buy and/or money back if not happy.

 

[funandtrains]

Buying a used steam loco is always a bit of gamble as they are like used cars with good and bad ones with some fault difficult to see.

Easy things to spot are if the owner has has the gas up too high with the smokebox paint sorched and if the chassis is coated in crud through lack of cleaning dirt may of caused the moving parts to wear quicker than usual.

Make sure that all the vales work and moving parts moving freely but the only way to be sure is see it running ideally on a line with some gradients and pulling a reasonable length train.

Having said that if the price is very good and can't test you can budget for having to pay for repairs.

Some makes have parts available from the makers with Roundhouse, Aster and Regner being the best for this service although Accucraft now provide some. Other brands if a part needs replacing you may need to pay for someone to make parts for you.

If you want a better price used live steam loco look for one that is 45mm gauge only as there are inlfated prices for 32mm gauge locos. I don't now why people will pay nearly new prices for a used loco! This however is partly because there are two or three dealers of 16mm live steam locos in the UK who try and buy every loco that come's up for sale in auction and classified adds, then service them and sell for inflated prices. If you buy from them you will be able to get them to fix any problems but they charge about 30-40% more than you can buy one independantly.

 

[Rhos Helyg Loco Works]

This however is partly because there are two or three dealers of 16mm live steam locos in the UK who try and buy every loco that come's up for sale in auction and classified adds, then service them and sell for inflated prices. If you buy from them you will be able to get them to fix any problems but they charge about 30-40% more than you can buy one independantly.

Surely that is the same as buying a second-hand car from a bloke down the pub, and buying a fully-serviced second-hand car from a reputable dealer complete with history, warranty, after-sales service, etc.? What price peace of mind?

 

[funandtrains]

This however is partly because there are two or three dealers of 16mm live steam locos in the UK who try and buy every loco that come's up for sale in auction and classified adds, then service them and sell for inflated prices. If you buy from them you will be able to get them to fix any problems but they charge about 30-40% more than you can buy one independantly.

Surely that is the same as buying a second-hand car from a bloke down the pub, and buying a fully-serviced second-hand car from a reputable dealer complete with history, warranty, after-sales service, etc.? What price peace of mind?

Quite true, you would hope to get it 20% or more cheaper than a dealer. The daft thing is that for a 5 year old car you would often pay half the used price and a ten year old car would be 10-20% of the new price. I don't know why people pay nearly the same quite old locos as new ones that have a makers warrantee unless they are hard to find models in very good condition (having said that I have paid nearly new prices for 3 some live steam locos but they were like new and out of production).

 

[dunnyrail]

I would say that you cannot do worse than go for a second hand Rounhouse. Built in Doncaster and if you have one that is less than perect they should be able to sort it out for you at a fair price. I seak as a proud owner of 4 different ones, though one has now been sold.
JonD

 

[Mik]

Think of it this way, if you happen to get a turkey, you also got a free crash course in model locomotive repair. These things aren't real complicated. Just find a friend who knows his way around a lathe and another who can braze (if you don't wish to learn yourself) and you're all set!

 

[funandtrains]

Have you any particular loco in mind?

 

[Ferrysteam]

You usually get what you pay for.Go for the type of engine that belonged to the cabinet queen collector,the type of collector that enjoys oiling and cleaning them,(me).You can get good engines from people that run them as well,as long as the engines are well oiled and maintained.Make is only a collectors preference,there are good engines in all makes,it's a matter of what you fancy and can afford at the time.I prefer Accucraft and Regner simply because RoundHouse are too expensive.I've sold about six engines in the last few weeks without any complaints.....Allan.

 

[stevedenver]

i learned years ago that saving money isnt always a 'saving'
especially if you dont have the knowledge to evaluate, or more importantly, repair things

and, the headache of finding parts, sometimes, if needed, can be quite a problem-and again result in all 'savings' being lost
not to mention finding someone to do the job right and shipping

just a thought

there are indeed bargains to be had
i bought a SRRL roundhouse for a song, perfect,
i bought a dead mint un-opened LGB/ aster frank S (fairly high price, but i wanted insurance because i know so little about live steam and less about all but the most simple repairs-ie mechanical)
and i still had to do a bit of work to make it right as the cylinders had frozen with factory lube in them



but once in a while, even if you know what youre doing, you get burned

its risk versus cost

for this reason, its worth a lot to be able to get a no problems refund

 

[BRStandard]

If you're looking to buy cheap, then beware. You could get a bargain but you could end up with a lot of work, if you don't know what you're doing.
I was going to say that there?s no easy answer ? but on reflection there is ?and it?s this. If you don?t know what you?re doing then play safe. A bad first experience could put you off for a good while and that would mean missing out on a whole lot of fun.
J2, there's a lot of good advice been given here - pristine cabinet queens v. oil and crud coated bangers, with scratches, scuffs and scorch marks will tell you a lot before it evens steams.
It goes without saying that the older the loco the greater the potential for problems so check the wheels - if the plating's wearing away or is totally worn off it shows it's a high mileage runner, which means everything else has had a good run for its money, so cylinders, jets and burners would need overhauling.

In addition a boiler and safety valve test would also be at the top of my list.

Inexperienced modellers should only be buying second-hand from a reputable dealer, and one who provides a warranty.
However, if you like a challenge, relish the excitement of a gamble and want to learn from your mistakes, this is one great way to do it. Just be prepared to spend a few years getting whatever you buy finally to run right.

And finally, a sage, not-quite-so-young-anymore, man known to us all (and having a faint whiff of the sea about him) summed up buying live steam off eBay as being the place where someone sells a steam loco that they know is a pup and don't want any come-back....... however it can also be the place where a legitimate model is sold.

As always, caveat emptor.

 

[funandtrains]

Have you any particular loco in mind?

Depends on which day you ask me

I spose if I'm being sensible, I'd quite like to go for a Lady Anne. They are common, locally made and seem bombproof. But the secondhand prices?? PFFT. Theres no way im paying 800 quid for a banger.
Hey its not easy being tight.

There are so many Lady Anne locos available now if is often possible to find a good one for much less than £800.