Slow and Hot Stainz Loco..... Help please.

dude2112

dude2112

Registered
I have finally got my hands on a LGB 2 Loco, used but seemingly in very good condition.
I only received it yesterday and though the sound seems a bit iffy, I,e. I have to turn the power right up to get it to work. It did run very quietly and smoothly at all speeds.

This afternoon I have rushed home from work to play with my new toy and at first it ran fine again, I had, had it running forwards for about an hour then switched to reverse.
It then ran very slowly so I checked the pickups and wheels which I cleaned a bit of fluff off and used Track magic but now it runs slowly in both directions and the bottom of the loco was quite hot. Not good me thinks......

Any help greatly appreciated as I want to move onto more of these locos but this aint a great start.
Andy.
 
Good news, I suspect it can be sorted without spending much, if any, cash.
Not so good news, it may take some time and effort.
Stainz locos aren't the easiest to dismantle and I think you will need to.
I suspect it may have been over greased. Once used for more than a short while the grease got warm and contaminated the motor. This increases the current consumption making the motor even warmer.
Here's one of several topics on motor cleaning.

https://www.gscalecentral.net/electric-locomotives-trams/lgb-motor-repair-and-testing/

I'm sure there is guidance on dismantling a Stainz somewhere on the forum. Searching for fitting a decoder to one may help as this involves taking it apart.
 
raised numbers or printed numbers, plastic rods or metal rods.

if a plastic rod version should be 2 little screws that take the bottom plate off, odds are theres too much grease in there or it's gone hard

if a metal rod version, the chassis needs some more care to take apart, I can supply you the diagram
 
;D ;) O0 Thank you so much for your answers. The good news is that it has the plastic side rods and printed numbers and I know which plate you mean Sparky as I have had a mooch. ;)

Thanks for the link Neil, I will save that.

Am off work after tamoz so will try to sort it out then. I really want to get into these locos as I learn more and more about the variations of them....
Cheers Andy.
 
I can tell you lots about older stainz locos, but very little about newer ones
 
:'( Today I have wiped a bit of grease out of my loco, to be honest not a lot.
I also gave it a spray with contact cleaner, all to no avail :(

It is drawing so much power that the lights are dim.......
 
Andy, what power supply/controller are you using?

Is the Stainz the only loco that you have access to right now?

Jon.
 
i've run a stainz with one of those, but it's pushing it a little bit, but at meduim speed should be ok
 
It is the getting hot bit that concerns me. LGB locos normally don't get hot. Warm perhaps, after hours of hard work, but hot suggests issues.

I have worn out motors on LGB locos and the signs are slow running, heat and that smoky electrical smell.

I am also unsure that you have enough power, as Thomas is intended for a lower voltage and amperage than the modern LGB locos.

Firstly, does your loco have smoke? If so, ensure it is switched off, although that would not make the loco hot even if it was on.

Secondly, try running the chassis alone, without lighting etc. Is it still slow and hot?


Beg, (not steal) or borrow, a decent suitable power unit.

LGB units are expensive, and I recall not being able to afford one when I started in the late 70s, but back then LGB had an advertised voltage. of 14v with 18v seen as a boost. A Scalextric power supply would work fine for LGB then, it may not now.

My prognosis is that if you have tried the above and loco is still sluggish and hot, you may need to replace the motor.

Yes, that is not cheap, but looking on the bright side, you don't have a clamshell mech!

James
 
Probably the best low-cost genuine LGB power unit for a small layout is the 50080 1-amp unit, like this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LGB-50080-G-SCALE-MODEL-RAILWAY-POWER-TRANSFORMER-230v-1-Amp-2-PIN-PLUG-/391191380930

This is actually quite a fair price for a buy-it-now, and with free postage - very occasionally you can find them down to around £20 but I've also seen them go for a lot more, and because they are heavy there is usually a hefty postage charge on top!

This is an out-of-production unit now, so you'll only find one secondhand, but I like them much more than the new type with the separate power supply - with a 1 amp capacity (as opposed to the 0.5 amp of some other starter-set units) and delivering a good 20 volts, this is fine for running a small analogue layout with one loco running at any one time - and if/when you upgrade to something a bit meatier, this unit will serve fine for a test track or rolling road.

I'm not saying this will cure your problem - as others have said, given the overheating then you may sadly have a failing motor though that is quite unusual for an LGB loco unless it's been badly mistreated. When you say it gets "hot", do you mean genuinely HOT - as in you don't want to hold your finger on it - or just that it is noticeably warm after prolonged running?

If the motor is actually OK, then if your Bachmann controller is only putting out 12 volts at maybe half an amp or so, then that could explain why it needs to be turned all the way up to get any speed from the Stainz (which is built for 18-24 volts) and also why the lights are dim, if it hasn't got constant-voltage lighting....

Jon.
 
James Day said:
It is the getting hot bit that concerns me. LGB locos normally don't get hot. Warm perhaps, after hours of hard work, but hot suggests issues.

I have worn out motors on LGB locos and the signs are slow running, heat and that smoky electrical smell.

I am also unsure that you have enough power, as Thomas is intended for a lower voltage and amperage than the modern LGB locos.

Firstly, does your loco have smoke? If so, ensure it is switched off, although that would not make the loco hot even if it was on.

Secondly, try running the chassis alone, without lighting etc. Is it still slow and hot?


Beg, (not steal) or borrow, a decent suitable power unit.

LGB units are expensive, and I recall not being able to afford one when I started in the late 70s, but back then LGB had an advertised voltage. of 14v with 18v seen as a boost. A Scalextric power supply would work fine for LGB then, it may not now.

My prognosis is that if you have tried the above and loco is still sluggish and hot, you may need to replace the motor.

Yes, that is not cheap, but looking on the bright side, you don't have a clamshell mech!

James
Click to expand...

Clamshell mech 10mins stripdown, service rebuild, but have done a few now, most of the fleet are clamshells
 
Of course clamshells can be stripped down, I have done it many times too, but it is a lot more work than the modern 'drop out' mechs.
 
Back to basics..
Where, and on what, are you running this? - indoors, outdoors, new track, old track, how good are your rail joints?
What voltage are you getting out of your controller? - You can get a cheap DVM (Digital Volt Meter) for around a fiver.. Better models cost a little more.
How clean are your wheels, skates, AND wheel backs? - All the above, and state of track can affect this.

Then we can look at if the motor-block is getting 'hot'.. Look closely at the wheels. - Are they lined up the same on both axles? This is called 'quartering', and if a wheel has slipped (or more likely the gear on the axle has jumped a tooth) the webs on the wheels will not be inline. This will cause the motion to be 'sticky/stiff' in at least one place during the rotation of the wheels..
Can the loco run very slowly, without hesitating at all? - Indicates a problem with something binding.

Apologies if any of this is too basic for you, but better to go through it all than make assumptions.
PhilP.
 
Zerogee said:
Probably the best low-cost genuine LGB power unit for a small layout is the 50080 1-amp unit, like this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LGB-50080-G-SCALE-MODEL-RAILWAY-POWER-TRANSFORMER-230v-1-Amp-2-PIN-PLUG-/391191380930

This is actually quite a fair price for a buy-it-now, and with free postage - very occasionally you can find them down to around £20 but I've also seen them go for a lot more, and because they are heavy there is usually a hefty postage charge on top!



Jon.
Click to expand...

Found this one for £13 atm....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/lgb-1amp-transformer-/201390263026?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ee3cb8af2
 
Just re-read the first post..
If it suddenly started, it sounds like a worn gear inside has jumped a tooth, so the mechanicals are binding..??

The controller is not a bad price, even with the £5.50 postage.
 
:) Thanks for all the answers guys, this is why I love this forum.....

I have spent over 6 hours today trying to sort my problem loco out, I have taken the wheels out and checked for play in the drive shafts. They seemed fine.
I then refitted the wheel assembly several tens of times to get the quartering right ::)
I ran it upside down on my work bench whilst doing all this, gotta love the skids on these locos.... 8) connected to my track via crocs and wires....

My controllers are 16V. 1 Amp Bachmann G-Scale.
My layout is in my loft with a mix of LGB new and used Brass track, my rail joints are fine and I have run today my Toby and Big Hauler on the same track ok.

I have also tried another controller.

I guess its another motor then.

I have ended up getting it to run upto half speed with the lights ok but the sound just keeps clicking.....


How do I drop on these locos...... :-[
 
I shouldn't worry about it, I had to replace 4 motors in LGB locos in the space of 2 years. One loco needed 2 motors. Nothing is perfect. ::) Mind you, I did shout >:(
 
Good efforts. it sounds like you have done a good job.

How does the chassis perform without the lights and sound? Worth trying with these isolated.

As I have said before, even if they are faulty it won't explain a warm motor!

Is your Bachmann control unit offering one amp, or point 1 amp? I am assuming the former, as would anyone seriously make a transformer barely capable of lighting two LGB light bulbs?

Anyway if it is offering an amp, that should be enough to make your Stainz whizz quite well, if all is in order.

That said, if you are interested in acquiring more LGB stock and locos in the future, A good and more powerful transformer will be a help. Aim for a couple of amps at least, as a few lights here, sound there, two motors on a loco and you are soon into 2amp territory if not five!

James
 
I have gone up to my loft today and ran my Loco no.2......
I have tested my track voltage and my meter is reading 16.95 volts, my stated ampage on my power packs is 1000 milliamps.

The loco runs fine up to 3/4 power but wont run over that. I know that the motor is probably knackered but I can still have my fun watching it run ... :P

My question is, why does the sound just click instead of kicking in, even at low speeds which my loco does fine ?

BTW.. Any recommendations on where to get a new motor from ?

Also any diagram's on stripping this loco ?
I have looked but must be looking in the wrong places....

Andy.
 
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