Thinking of buying first live steam loco- advice please

D

davecar

Registered
Hi All,
I have been into G scale for about 12 months now - progressed to G scale following my return to 00 scale and my semi retirement a couple of years ago. I have a raised track (about 9 inches from the ground) and my layout is about 25 meters long and an oval which at each end goes in and out of some of my garden features eg water falls etc. I have R1 curves. I have a Helmsman control unit and five locos plus coaches and goods wagons, mainly Bachmann and LGB.
I am thinking about buying my first live steam loco and I would appreciate advice on the following from members with experience of live steam.
1. What are the disadvanges of operating live steam on an electric track? I assume that the track would have to be cleaned more frequently, but is it possible to operate live steam and electric at the same time?
2. I am looking at an entry loco with a small wheelbase in order to get round my R1 curves. I am looking at the Ragleth from Track Shack at £666 for the remote version. Is this a good choice for a first timer and I assume with such a small wheelbase it will get round the R1 curves? Would this be the case? I have watched the three excellent films about the Ragleth on You tube by Summerlandsteam.
3. I am totally confused about scales with live steam. Would the Ragleth look out of place pulling Bachmann and LGB rolling stock? How do the scales compare? How would these coaches connect to the Ragleth? My couplings are are mixture of hook and loop and knuckle.
4. Track Shack is predicting a delivery date of August 2011 for this particular model. Is this likely to be the case if I placed an order, based on members views and experience of this supplier?
Any helpful tips would be gratefully received.

Kind regards,

Dave
 
£666 is a very good price for a R/C loco, I don't own one but would like to, I've never heard of any serious problems with them ( or many minor ones come to think of it ) so I would buy with confidence on that front. If you do not like the way it looks with your existing stock , the I.O.M 4 wheelers are available also at a good price so you could add some of these as time & money allows. I run a rake of the bachmann gondolas behind my Roundhouse & Regner loco's and they do not look bad at all. The bachmann coaching stock would probably seem way too small, but then again I have seen these modified , mainly by changing the window size or the roof so they can be made to look acceptable too.
I believe GRS supply an alternative hook & loop coupler to fit most live steamers.
Trak shak also have a good reputation , never had any problem at all when dealing with them, also very helpful on the phone .
 
I have an Accucraft Edrig - very similar to the Ragaleth, just a different body - which I run on my electric line.

I do get some oliy deposits on the line, but not every where - just at the place where I steam up and in places where the loco has to work particularly hard. I just run an old towel over these points after running it. That hasn't been a problem.

Chris Bird's videos which you have watched are really excellent, and really do shown you what you need to know. This is very good choice of loco - I've found mine to be very simple and enjoyable to operate and very good value for money. It will certainly get around the R1 curves (I have plenty), what you will find is that the loco will slow quite considerably as it goes round the bends or indeed on any inclines you might have - just like the real thing. I think you will find the radio control very useful here as you will be able to drive it around the curves. That said I do quite often set mine running without the radio control and can find a speed at which it won't go too fast on the straights but will make it happily around the R1s.

Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about scale. The real things came in all sorts of sizes! That said you may feel like the Ragaleth is to a larger scale, although not of a prototype, so not to a scale per se, it probably sits most comfortably at 1:19. Ultimately only you can answer this for yourself.

Trackshack are a very well respected supplier in my experience, John the proprietor posts regularly here as SeaLion. No worries there in my opinion.

Tag Gorton has written an excellent book called Tag Gorton's Live Steam Workshop which guides you through a variety of ways, simple and more complex, that you can customise these locos. I'd highly recommend that if you do make the purchase.

Good luck!
 
I've owned a couple of live steamers and run a lot more of various makes, I only concentrated on electric again as I don't currently have a garden.
davecar said:
1. I assume that the track would have to be cleaned more frequently,
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Yes that's about the only disadvantage due to oil dropped.

davecar said:
but is it possible to operate live steam and electric at the same time?
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Yes as long as you check the model has insulated wheels, standard on Accucraft. :bigsmile:

davecar said:
2. Is this a good choice for a first timer and I assume with such a small wheelbase it will get round the R1 curves? Would this be the case?
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Yes a very good choice, the chuff pipe is a good idea too and if they still use the knob for a regulator replacing that with a lever type one will prevent regular burnt fingers, guess how I know that. Run it in on blocks for a couple of steamings before you let it loose on the track and you will learn more about the gas and regulator without having to chase after it careering towards a corner. Expect it to keep improving as it all beds in for the first 20 or so steamings, it's not a problem just it can mean she seems to leap away at first. With time you will have a controllable and fun loco.

davecar said:
3. Would the Ragleth look out of place pulling Bachmann and LGB rolling stock? How do the scales compare? How would these coaches connect to the Ragleth? My couplings are are mixture of hook and loop and knuckle.
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Things like flat wagons or open wagons varied so much it wouldn't matter and have a look at a picture of the Ffestiniog with the heritage train and you often see 3 different sized coaches together. Not enough to worry about and you can always get a couple of 16mm coaches later and have a dedicated train.

davecar said:
4. Track Shack is predicting a delivery date of August 2011 for this particular model. Is this likely to be the case if I placed an order, based on members views and experience of this supplier?
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Give John a ring and you'll see how pleasant and knowledgeable he is. He is in close contact with Accucraft and helped drive a couple of their projects, the electric Countess and the new colours for the coaches so his information is usually as accurate as Accucraft have from the factory.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Trackshack on service, price and delivery.
 
Paying £666? Just make sure it's not named Damien! :rolf:
 
With regards to this particular concern - 3. I am totally confused about scales with live steam. How do the scales compare? How would these coaches connect to the Ragleth? My couplings are are mixture of hook and loop and knuckle.

Most commercialy available models of UK narrow gauge freelance live steamers are what might be said to be nominally 16 mm/1:19th scale. There are some freelance built nominally to 15 mm/1:20.3 scale which tend to be of US narrow gauge prototypes or Isle of Man stock for the UK. Then there are live steam models of European prototypes but they tend to be built to a nominal 1:22.5 scale to match up with LGB and similar products.

If your Bachmann stock is of the "Big Hauler" type then these will tend to scale up at 1:24 if the prototype was of US narrow gauge origin or 1:29 if of US main line type. Likewise LGB European prototypes will scale up at around 1:22.5 but if of US mainline types 1:29. Bachman Spektrum models should be 1:20.3. All clear then. I think Rule 8 needs to be applied here.

With regards to couplings the most common standard fitment for UK live steam is the centre buffer type with 3 link chain although "choppers" are becoming quite popular through the Accucraft models. I have a "match" wagon created from an An Aristocraft 20 ft gondola (1:29), see attached image, that I can use to hook up stock with differing couplings - centre buffer/knuckle(3 types)/hook and loop. I have yet to add a "chopper" option to this wagon as the "chopper" bit on Accucraft products can be unbolted and the run as a simple centre buffer coupler. Something like this coud be your answer to using existing stock without mods.
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A Caradoc (basically the same size as Ragleth), pulling LGB coaches:

1a709e4fe8ec4203a55f0f69912faa0a.jpg


Roundhouse locos go round R1 curves slightly better than Accucraft ones.

All steam locos will drop some oil on the track, but if you start the loco on some running blocks and clear out the condensed steam/oil when you start up, then you can catch most of the oil that gets chucked out.
 
Good point by Doug and the reason many have a steam up siding on their line so it can be started off the main circuit and drop the usual initial oil condensate mix away from the main loop. You usually get a splurge of it up the chimney on the first movement, I used a damp dishcloth over the chimney only for a moment, so you don't starve the draft, as the regulator was first opened to stop it going all over the loco which meant it dropped out the bottom of the smokebox onto the track instead. Siding can be just a couple of feet long to allow a few rotations to get hot steam through the cylinders and blow out condensation.
 
I'm not sure how it would effect digital set ups as I don't own one , but generally the oil on the track thing has got to be garden railways biggest myth/ most exaggerated problem.
 
Mark (mbiff) runs both steam and trackpower, with few problems. He just cleans the track with a cloth every so often. Most of the oil drops on to the centre line of the track, not onto the rails.
 
garrymartin said:
I'm not sure how it would effect digital set ups as I don't own one , but generally the oil on the track thing has got to be garden railways biggest myth/ most exaggerated problem.
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I run digital track power and live steam with no problems, though after an extended live steam running session the track needs a clean before running track power again. My 4 live steam locos vary in the amoint of oil they deposit on the track - the 2 Roundhouse locos leave very little, the Pearse a little more and the Regner Vincent fairly spews the stuff out (although it has got a variable flow on the reservoir so maybe I need to play a little more with the settings). Unfortunately I don't have any Accucraft locos but I assume they would be the same as the Pearse.
 
Live Steam = oil all over your track is an old wives tale.

You'll get a little one first movement but easily cleaned off with old rag, once running there's none. I get more muck from leaves and plants that get mushed onto the rails, but you get that whether your live steam or track power (of which i am both). If you fit a Summerlands Chuffer (cheque in the post please Chris!) then you don't get your loco covered with grime either as it all goes downwards, oh and you get that nice chuff sound too....
 
I find a bit of old carpet tacked to a block of wood makes for efficient rail cleaning, or you could use a block designed for holding sandpaper. A bit of parrafin on the carpet makes cutting through any oily muck a breeze.

Happy steamings,

John
 
Many thanks for all the helpful posts here as I ponder about getting my first steam loco. I am still confused about scale and couplings but I think I will just see how my present rolling stock looks before considering alternatives.
Your posts, as ever, have been very informative.
Many thanks to all of you.
Kind regards,

Dave
 
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