Track plan books?

[Grindar]

I'm wanting to build a garden railway, and have been for maybe 25 years or so now I think if I plan it out enough (budget and so forth) I can get it past The Powers That Be for construction permission, but that's my weak point. Outside of one random webpage and a few on SCARM, there just doesn't seem to be nearly as many track plans out there for G scale, and I'm really not very good at doing them from scratch myself on paper. All I can seem to find is one LGB track plan book that looks like it's been out of print for 20 years or so, so it's kind of pricey (For a book where I can't find out enough about the exact contents to know if it will be useful, anyway).

My space is about 8' x 20'. The 8 can be a little flexible, but as small as possible is a plus. Equipment wise, the biggest engine I want to run (and can reasonably afford along with construction costs this year) is the Piko BR24, which will probably have a short string of passenger cars to pull. Looking a little toylike on sharper turns is fine. I'd prefer LGB geometry, not out of any specific brand loyalty but because I know local hobby shop has a bunch of it used along with rolling stock, and the saving money on that is always good

So with that brief outline of what I'm looking for, any suggestions on where to dig for plans? I'm really not very good coming up with them myself, having tried it for years on my indoor trains and coming up with nothing. (Noch preform ended up saving me on my Z scale lol) It's easier when I've got track to push around, but that is kind of the problem I'm trying to solve here...not having the track yet and needing to know what to buy. And I know someone will say "convert something from a smaller scale that you like" but that is rarely so simple, especially again when you don't have the track to just push around and make it work :/

Anyhow, I appreciate any advice you guys can give!

 

[Zerogee]

I think the use of track plans taken or adapted from books is probably much more common with indoor layouts (which is mainly what is shown in the old LGB track planning book you mentioned) - those built outside tend to follow the landscape just like real railways do, thus they are pretty much all different because no two garden locations are likely to be the same....

If you want to run a BR24 tender loco (I have one, they're lovely locos and look great with a train of three or four 6-wheel "thunderbox" Rekowagens on the back) then I would strongly advise against Radius 1 (2 foot radius) curves and points - if you can't squeeze in Radius 3 (4 foot radius, 8 foot diamenter) then Radius 2 is a compromise - better than R1, but not as space-consuming as R3.

Personally, I think I'd start by buying a full circle of curves of the biggest radius you can fit in the width of your space, and as many decent-length straights as you can afford at the time (if you can, buy 2, 3 or 4-foot lengths of straight track - a lot of the short 1-foot bits will soon become a hassle, especially if you decide you need rail clamps for every joint!). Put these together as a simple oval, loose-laid, and get some trains running..... then as you can afford, add a few points (switches) and whatever else you can get, and just let it grow naturally. If you get the chance to buy some of the very wide (Radius 5) curves, get them just to use to break up the long straight runs of track - a few little "wiggles" will make the trains look much more interesting.

One of the (many) great things about G is that you can get away with just putting the track out on any reasonably-level space, even on grass, and play around with it till you're happy with the result - don't tie yourself down too soon to a rigid plan, just get some track and then let it evolve.....
Oh, and welcome to GSC! I'm sure there will be several others along soon to offer their own advice, all of which is just as valid as mine - to paraphrase an old quote, put a dozen garden railroaders together and you'll have fifteen different opinions.....

Jon.

 

[Grindar]

I think the use of track plans taken or adapted from books is probably much more common with indoor layouts (which is mainly what is shown in the old LGB track planning book you mentioned) - those built outside tend to follow the landscape just like real railways do, thus they are pretty much all different because no two garden locations are likely to be the same....

If you want to run a BR24 tender loco (I have one, they're lovely locos and look great with a train of three or four 6-wheel "thunderbox" Rekowagens on the back) then I would strongly advise against Radius 1 (2 foot radius) curves and points - if you can't squeeze in Radius 3 (4 foot radius, 8 foot diamenter) then Radius 2 is a compromise - better than R1, but not as space-consuming as R3.

Personally, I think I'd start by buying a full circle of curves of the biggest radius you can fit in the width of your space, and as many decent-length straights as you can afford at the time (if you can, buy 2, 3 or 4-foot lengths of straight track - a lot of the short 1-foot bits will soon become a hassle, especially if you decide you need rail clamps for every joint!). Put these together as a simple oval, loose-laid, and get some trains running..... then as you can afford, add a few points (switches) and whatever else you can get, and just let it grow naturally. If you get the chance to buy some of the very wide (Radius 5) curves, get them just to use to break up the long straight runs of track - a few little "wiggles" will make the trains look much more interesting.

One of the (many) great things about G is that you can get away with just putting the track out on any reasonably-level space, even on grass, and play around with it till you're happy with the result - don't tie yourself down too soon to a rigid plan, just get some track and then let it evolve.....
Oh, and welcome to GSC! I'm sure there will be several others along soon to offer their own advice, all of which is just as valid as mine - to paraphrase an old quote, put a dozen garden railroaders together and you'll have fifteen different opinions.....

Jon.

I'm kind of starting with a more or less blank space here, only a few big bushes which will need probably need moved to accommodate track anyway. On the curves I was figuring I'd end up at R2, maybe even blending 2 and 3 to ease it a bit, but all 3 might be pushing it.

The biggest issue is that the space will need a good bit of prep work before I even can really put track down. I will have to run electrical to the area for sure (under the house, not going to be fun). And the whole area's on a downslope that will need leveled and then raised to avoid mower clippings at least, and as I said those bushes relocated. And if you're not familiar with the American Midsouth Area, from June til end of August it's usually around 40C here and nearly 100% humidty, so I would prefer to get that prep work done in the next few months before it does get that hot.

Heck, if anyone actually does happen to have this book https://www.amazon.com/LGB-Track-Pl...1517272536&sr=8-1&keywords=lgb+track+planning I'd love to know if it actually has anything appropriate to my needs/space, then I'd go ahead and buy it. I just hate spending that much blind.

 

[Lobethalbahn2]

Heck, if anyone actually does happen to have this book https://www.amazon.com/LGB-Track-Pl...1517272536&sr=8-1&keywords=lgb+track+planning I'd love to know if it actually has anything appropriate to my needs/space, then I'd go ahead and buy it. I just hate spending that much blind.

You can download it from the German G scale specialists Champex Linden for free. However, it is the German version, but it is mostly pictures and plans so I'm sure Google Translate would get you by if you don't speak German. They have split it into several sections and put their watermark on it (but it's pretty unobtrusive when printed out).

Here are the links:
https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_cover.pdf

https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_1-52.pdf

https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_53-96.pdf

https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_97-150.pdf

https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_151-202.pdf

https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_203-256.pdf

Lots of older LGB service diagrams, catalogues, brochures and information booklets are on the same downloads page:
https://www.champex-linden.de/cl_downloads.htm
just scroll all the way down.

 

[Grindar]

You can download it from the German G scale specialists Champex Linden for free. However, it is the German version, but it is mostly pictures and plans so I'm sure Google Translate would get you by if you don't speak German. They have split it into several sections and put their watermark on it (but it's pretty unobtrusive when printed out).

Here are the links:
https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_cover.pdf

https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_1-52.pdf

https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_53-96.pdf

https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_97-150.pdf

https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_151-202.pdf

https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente/lgb_gleisanlagen_und_technik_203-256.pdf

Lots of older LGB service diagrams, catalogues, brochures and information booklets are on the same downloads page:
https://www.champex-linden.de/cl_downloads.htm
just scroll all the way down.

Awesome, thanks! There is a lot of promising starts I've seen already in the first section, just needing to let the curves out a little!

 

[dunnyrail]

Awesome, thanks! There is a lot of promising starts I've seen already in the first section, just needing to let the curves out a little!

Have a look at this site as well, though it is for Small Layouts there are some very good designs that could fit in a Garden Environment just not drawn to our scale. But that should not an issue as the likelyhood of a Track Plan fitting your Garden exactly is remote in the extreme.

http://www.carendt.com

 

[PhilP]

Why not post a picture, or two, of the area you are hoping to get permission to use? - A slope can add interest, allows for 'natural' looking bridges, trestles, cuttings or embankments..

You will get lots of ideas coming back at you..
Welcome to the Forum!

 

[James Day]

Whilst I love looking at plans, or have enjoyed doing it, I tend to make my own now using Anyrail which I bought many years ago. The people behind it are really helpful and the plans you can make with it are superb.

I needed to plan a layout using Playmobil RC track and LGB and they added it specially for me!

Strongly Reccomended Anyrail!

I have another system called Ultimate Racer that I use to plan my slot car roadway layouts and a techie chum even added some Atlas rail geometry into that to help me do road rail combinations!

I guess I need to persuade him to add some LGB track to it next so I can plan more G scale road rail layouts!

James

 

[Grindar]

Why not post a picture, or two, of the area you are hoping to get permission to use? - A slope can add interest, allows for 'natural' looking bridges, trestles, cuttings or embankments..

You will get lots of ideas coming back at you..
Welcome to the Forum!

I can try to do that tonight, if I get home before dark

Curious, I'm looking at the 2 track plans on page 51 of that LGB book linked a bit upthread because they're both right in my ballpark. Can run 2 trains fairly easily, about the right space...How much geometry trouble am I looking at if I bump the R2 curves to R3 and the R1s to R2? I'm especially liking plan 2 on that page, because I think I can use the downslope a bit and the right hand edge of the area is the downhill, so make a rock face and a trestle on that end.

 

[Zerogee]

I can try to do that tonight, if I get home before dark

Curious, I'm looking at the 2 track plans on page 51 of that LGB book linked a bit upthread because they're both right in my ballpark. Can run 2 trains fairly easily, about the right space...How much geometry trouble am I looking at if I bump the R2 curves to R3 and the R1s to R2? I'm especially liking plan 2 on that page, because I think I can use the downslope a bit and the right hand edge of the area is the downhill, so make a rock face and a trestle on that end.

The geometry problem you'll encounter doing that is that the difference between R1 and R2 curves give you two correctly spaced parallel tracks, R2 and R3 won't - the difference in radius between R2 and R3 is much greater than that between R1 and R2. If you don't need your tracks to run parallel all the way round, that may not be a problem of course.

This diagram (copyright LGB, no challenge implied etc etc....) shows the LGB system geometry - you can see what I mean with the difference between the R1 curves (yellow), R2 (green) and R3 (blue).







Jon.

 

[Grindar]

The geometry problem you'll encounter doing that is that the difference between R1 and R2 curves give you two correctly spaced parallel tracks, R2 and R3 won't - the difference in radius between R2 and R3 is much greater than that between R1 and R2. If you don't need your tracks to run parallel all the way round, that may not be a problem of course.

This diagram (copyright LGB, no challenge implied etc etc....) shows the LGB system geometry - you can see what I mean with the difference between the R1 curves (yellow), R2 (green) and R3 (blue).



View attachment 232615



Jon.

Yep, I've got that. I'm not so much concerned with distance between the parallel tracks, but I guess it'll mean somewhere there's a piece of straight track making the inner loop bigger or at least increasing the distance between the switches. The switches actually were my primary concern, because they don't seem to make an R2 version...was wondering how funky that was going to make it.

 

[Zerogee]

Yep, I've got that. I'm not so much concerned with distance between the parallel tracks, but I guess it'll mean somewhere there's a piece of straight track making the inner loop bigger or at least increasing the distance between the switches. The switches actually were my primary concern, because they don't seem to make an R2 version...was wondering how funky that was going to make it.

I know this means mixing track brands, but Trainline45 do make Radius 2 points to fill the gap that LGB never did.... but I think in most cases you'd be better using Radius 3 points throughout. You can get some very short track pieces (down to about an inch/25mm or so) from LGB to fit in any gaps and even things up, but you'll also find that most G scale track has some degree of "flexibility" (I don't mean in the individual track lengths, which are very rigid, but in terms of alignment where they join together) that will often allow you to make things join up even where, technically, they shouldn't if viewed on a track diagram.....

Jon.

 

[dunnyrail]

Or of course things do not match up anywhere you can cut lengths of Flex Track to match, using the left over lengths in Sidings.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

If it don't fit, then don't force it (you will thank me for that advice later, at some time).
The perceived 'flexability' is just introducing faults into your trackwork that will become a problem later.

 

[maxi-model]

I think I have a different philosophy to what has been discussed so far. I understand where you are coming from in your initial post, however, one of the joys of a garden railway is that you can free yourself of a lot of the, of necessity, conventions you see in so many very fine indoor/show layouts. I never looked at any track plans when building my line. Just went with what was in my minds eye. I have a similar area to work with as you do "Grindar", ok I've got a bit extra "around the corner".

The one guiding principle I worked with was to do with minimum radii, as advised to give me the best range for future operational options, nothing less than 4'. Oh, and avoid reverse curves. I did start with R3 switches but because of the direction I was headed soon ditched them for R5's. Otherwise I used a mix of flexi-track (and a good track bender) and some set track, again R5's and a mix of different straights. Flexi is great creating "realistic" transitional curves and for trimming up to make those resulting odd bits fit. I have LGB, Piko, Tenmille, Bachmann makes and specially made up stuff from GRS , all code 332 all mixed up. It all works fine for DC and live seam operations. Just one quick extra - track clamps, use them.

The layout has had a few tweaks but what you see here is essentially what was in my "minds eye" at the start 14 years ago. Anything up to an Accucraft K-28 will run just fine on it. I started with a more curve friendly USAT GP38. Max

 

[Gavin Sowry]

Contrary to the largest possible radius advice, you can still get good running using the infamous R1 curves..... all it does, is limit your choice of rolling stock (although LGB have a supposed policy of making all their stuff suitable for R1). No matter what radius you choose, it all comes down to good track installation, and maintenance. I have had visitors from all around the world* at my R1 track powered rail (see thread Taita Gorge Railway) who have not been disappointed with my choices of track and power. Somehow, LGB Feldbahn stock looks better on R1 than larger radius.
* UK, Canada, USA, Australia, and Auckland....





​

 

[Gizzy]

I agree with Gavin.

R1s are fine if that's all you can fit in, and I wouldn't discount them. I still have an R1/R2 double loop where space constraints dictate, but in other areas, I have gone up to R3 on main line curves....

 

[Fred2179G]

I know this means mixing track brands, but Trainline45 do make Radius 2 points to fill the gap that LGB never did.... but I think in most cases you'd be better using Radius 3 points throughout.

Grinder (?), in the US the Trainline stuff is sold by Train-Li, I believe. They call 4' radius R4, to simplify things (LGB calls it R3.)
https://www.trainli.com/switches-c-29
LGB and Train-Li brass outdoor track is code 332 (0.332" tall) and is fully compatible. Train-Li makes the ties/sleepers match LGB so they look good together. There are lots of other USA options which you can find by reading the various US forums (Largescalecentral.com, for example.)

A small battery powered (cordless) Dremel tool with a cut-off disk allows you to adjust your track geometry in situ.

 

[Eaglecliff]

I think the use of track plans taken or adapted from books is probably much more common with indoor layouts (which is mainly what is shown in the old LGB track planning book you mentioned) - those built outside tend to follow the landscape just like real railways do, thus they are pretty much all different because no two garden locations are likely to be the same....

If you want to run a BR24 tender loco (I have one, they're lovely locos and look great with a train of three or four 6-wheel "thunderbox" Rekowagens on the back) then I would strongly advise against Radius 1 (2 foot radius) curves and points - if you can't squeeze in Radius 3 (4 foot radius, 8 foot diamenter) then Radius 2 is a compromise - better than R1, but not as space-consuming as R3.

Personally, I think I'd start by buying a full circle of curves of the biggest radius you can fit in the width of your space, and as many decent-length straights as you can afford at the time (if you can, buy 2, 3 or 4-foot lengths of straight track - a lot of the short 1-foot bits will soon become a hassle, especially if you decide you need rail clamps for every joint!). Put these together as a simple oval, loose-laid, and get some trains running..... then as you can afford, add a few points (switches) and whatever else you can get, and just let it grow naturally. If you get the chance to buy some of the very wide (Radius 5) curves, get them just to use to break up the long straight runs of track - a few little "wiggles" will make the trains look much more interesting.

One of the (many) great things about G is that you can get away with just putting the track out on any reasonably-level space, even on grass, and play around with it till you're happy with the result - don't tie yourself down too soon to a rigid plan, just get some track and then let it evolve.....
Oh, and welcome to GSC! I'm sure there will be several others along soon to offer their own advice, all of which is just as valid as mine - to paraphrase an old quote, put a dozen garden railroaders together and you'll have fifteen different opinions.....

Jon.

Very sound advice, I’d say. Throw away the plan books; think what a real railway (railroad) looks like. Miles of empty landscape with a very narrow line of rails running through it. You are laying track in the real world now! It’s my understanding that, unlike in the UK, US railroads were built as quickly and cheaply as possible. If they made a profit, fine, plough the money back in, improve things, make more money. If not, scrap it and start somewhere else. Try thinking along those lines... My layout is 28’ x about 8, a dogbone with a spiral at one end. Proud boast - there is nowhere you can stand and see the whole layout. Each year I tweak a bit here, meddle with a bit there, plant another miniature conifer - it’s what it’s all about. Plans are for baseboards! And I’m for R5 as and when I can afford it, otherwise R3 although I think there might just be about a foot of R2 somewhere. Good luck, and enjoy.

 

[stevedenver]

Let me add, the track plan book is excellent.
However....
Its partially focused on what i think of as very german layouts, yards, stations, double mainlines, and automation.

There is another book "The World of LGB" which is substantially yhe same, but has a bit of info on early digital operation. This book should sell for considerably less. I have both, and have read each several times.

The older version, for me, has a couple of features i like. Most layouts have dimensions provided. There is a list of garden plants that may be helpful. There are many photos of earlier LGB stock, and some elaborate layouts and scenes.

I think both are nice but neither is necessary, unless you want extensive electronic automation, old style.

I would suggest:1 that you purchase an lgb starter set, many are on ebay. Find one that appears to be in great condition, little wear to wheels and skates may reveal this. Take your time and get a feel for what there is, and good prices. Much on ebay , used, is priced near or above new!



Why a starter set? You will get a reliable, if non US outline loco, two cars, and a circle of track and deminimis power pack, typically at the lowest price for all the items.
The train will fit well in a small layout tight curves and sidings.

Having a loco that doesnt give you headaches WILL make your new project rewarding. Bachmann big haulers......maybe not. It depends on the version.

I have waaaay too many lgb locos, some quite large and pricey, and i still run my little lgb stainz locos with great joy. So will you, trust me on this.

2 since you have a small area, i think buying some extra sections of R1 curves and switches , and some straight sections will allow you to assemble and reconfigure as you like. Plus, while lgb R2 is better, and R 3 better still, for your space, the tighter curves can be used for sidings passing tracks, an inner loop. They probably won't go to waste.

Shop, and get a feel for prices,because i think used track is priced close to new, as can be switches, and when close, id go new (see below).

There are several on line dealers, trainworld, only trains, trainz, nicholas smith, star hobbies, pizza trains (try pizza trains, i think he has some very fair prices everything, new and used) and others. Some offer better pricing than others, but this is a start.

Flex track is great, but....it is not easily bent, especially tight radius, and requires cutting and joiners. You have to have your plan finalized.

On joiners, these are critical in outside operation. They must be tight and clean at the time of track joining. Expensive rail clamps are, imho, better, but may not be necessary for a raised bed, as there presumably wont be soil creeping onto the joints.

Imho, new track will provide good tight joiners but so can cared for and tweaked used track. It all depends on condition. You cannot imagine the wide range of owner abuse or care there is.

Just my thoughts. I think a raised layout may be wonderful. Be aware trains occasionally jump the track. A fall will likely damage or destroy a loco.