What car is this?

justme igor

justme igor

Registered
Country flag
Gentleman i would like your help please.
At the moment i am drawing&building from photos from the Soviet era around 1930's a flat car, gondola and a box car, with good success, photo's will be posted soon.
All my work is prototypical correct in size detail ect.
The limit is 0.75 mm (times 32 = 2.3 cm in 1:1) below that you wont see it back on the model with my printer.
Anyway:
I toke some photo's from the promo movie of the aa20 from his haul.
What kind of model are those cars?
Designed to transport coal, no surprise here.
I would like to search/have better pictures and specifications of those cars.
I suspect 40 ft?

vlcsnap-2021-01-10-13h00m30s094.pngvlcsnap-2021-01-10-13h01m05s012.pngvlcsnap-2021-01-10-13h00m43s330.png

What is very typical for the us of a cars are the ladders at the side and only seen on rare occasion in the Soviet times.
Not even the box cars in those times had them (10ish %) aldo a lot (35000 spread over 6 orders) where ordered from a Canadian car builder.

I hope someone will know more about this particular car.
Thanks in advance and please stay safe, with best regards
 
You say 1930s Soviet era but you don't say which country or line (if you know it). That would help. The point signal looks German, presumably East German.
 
From the shape of the sides they look like bottom-discharge hopper cars. I don't see any ladders, but I DO see grab-itons.A sharper image would help 100%, so that perhaps we might be able to read the stencilling and determine what alphabet was being used.

Let's not forget that Soviet-built railcars appeared on ALL the railways of the Warsaw Pact, including DR - the East German State railways - between 1945 and the end of the 80's. Also, these cars look way too modern for the 1930's - can you point us at the original imagery?
 
Last edited:
So the OP said 1930s this must rule some out, like East Germany.
 
Goodmorning gents,
Thank you very much for those answers, i had a suspicion that it would not be easy, i will do my best effort to give a decent replay with my best knowledge.

The AA20 locomotive was build in 1933/4 It was the largest ridged frame loco the world has ever seen until 1939 when the PRR S1 was build.(yes i am going to build them both)
They need a minimum of a 3 meter radii!!Probably 3 meter 40 minimum and need to have flange baring frogs
AA20 stands for: 4-14-4, 20 ton per axle by andrey andreev.
It made three trips, one from Krupps in Essen-Empire Germany where it was build as a 12-2! (Inspired by pcrr) to Soviet union-Lugansk, where they added a extra driving set and front bogie--->4-14-4.
Krupps never got payed btw, if it was not for that small man then nobody would know anything about this factory(krupps k5 ect)
From Lugansk it made a publicity trip to Moscow.
It was then put into storage at the Shcherbinka test facility, to be scraped in 1965.
For the interested:
4-14-4 - Wikipedia


tac foley said:
From the shape of the sides they look like bottom-discharge hopper cars. I don't see any ladders, but I DO see grab-itons.A sharper image would help 100%, so that perhaps we might be able to read the stencilling and determine what alphabet was being used.
Click to expand...
Yes thank you: Ladders----->grab-itons, i did not now how they where called.
There are only 5 bad/low quality photo's of this entire loco and the promo movie.
The last photo taking was in 1965 prior/beginning of the scrapping, this one of the best.
I made snap shots of the movie for the cars(and 100's of the loco)
hmmm yes open top hopper car would make scene if i look what is under the car, a high gondola is also doable regarding the extra strength it must have to empty them with a crane.
I dont have a clue how the unloaded the cargo 90 years back in the Soviet Union.
What puzzles me is something that looks like a piece of a breaking system under the car.
At the end of the train are apparently "true" open or even closed hopper cars, in the promo movie the stated that there where no passenger cars.


idlemarvel said:
You say 1930s Soviet era but you don't say which country or line (if you know it). That would help. The point signal looks German, presumably East German.
Click to expand...
Yes 1935, back then the German Empire had the Russian empire as direct neighbor.
After the great war Poland was giving back and giving extra land.
Actually i must say: Poland was restored (was completely out of existence)after 150 years after the ww2 and giving some land from the empire Germany.
When driving in Poland you still can see where the old borders are and the deviation/differences between the west and east poles.
So your observation makes a lot of sence. Sharp eye.

tac foley said:
Let's not forget that Soviet-built railcars appeared on ALL the railways of the Warsaw Pact, including DR - the East German State railways - between 1945 and the end of the 80's. Also, these cars look way too modern for the 1930's - can you point us at the original imagery?
Click to expand...
From ~1918 til 1940 most cars (i dare to say: 60%) where bought in the us of a, 20% In Germany and the rest diy Soviet.
Most bogies where manufactured in the soviet, the chain couplers where from England, even after the "reinvention" of the new English coupler they changed to Soviet design and where made in the soviet.
I have a suspicion that the cars where made in Canada.

Those where all my educated guesses and facts.
Better pictures are not possible, even the movie disappeared from the www.(sinds 8 months)
Glad that i have my data back!

Greg Elmassian said:
PO Uralvagonzavod
Click to expand...
Was operational at Oktober 1936 so the first car could be built in 1937, 1.5 years to late
Also it had a military building stuff designation

I hope this helps to get me a model of that box/hopper car.
Many thanks in advance.

Ps What most people dont know that there where TWO build. one was "completed", i have some old news articals in Russian about them, i can not translate but in the picture there are clearly two.
 
Hm interesting Igor you really are into obscure I thought I was one of the worst in that regard but you take it to another level. My thoughts and just that thoughts, there is a Russian Gauge line that runs into Poland to somewhere in the Katovice area. This I think was built for Coal movements and to the best of my knowledge still runs today. I wonder if that is a worthwhile line of research for you.
 
I made my comment about them being bottom-discharge cars based on the tapered shape of the lower part of the carbody - this aids the load movement when the bottom traps are opened.
 
Самый быстрый в СССР паровоз АА (Андрей Андреев) признан "технической ошибкой" - YouTube
By accident....
dunnyrail said:
I thought I was one of the worst in that regard but you take it to another level. My thoughts and just that thoughts, there is a Russian Gauge line that runs into Poland to somewhere in the Katovice area. This I think was built for Coal movements and to the best of my knowledge still runs today. I wonder if that is a worthwhile line of research for you.
Click to expand...
Al tho we live in the Netherlands, we have a vacation/retirement house in that exact area, when we do groceries in Gliwitche (germany back then)and return "home" in Ochojec we cross that line, also on that road you will cross the old border, and the place where the Germans fired the first shot behind those hills, even when it is 40C+ you will have it very cold.
Further down the road there is the oldest(not in use anymore) train station. there are still some tracks and it is a residential living now these days.
Yes that line is still in use to transport coal from a smaller mine to a bigger mine for further distribution, not to Russia anymore
In the old days that stations was to pick up the miners and a "check post" for the cargo to Germany. the track is 1435mm and was going to Russia where they made? the boogies wider to fit on the Russian 5ft gauge.

Yes that area has really a lot to tell.

I can tell you so much stories and show you so much of, and in that area regarding trains history coal mining and ww2 that a 4 week vacation will be to short, and we are both pretty good in history.(I always was fascinated by the great war and ww2)
When going towards Katowice/Ribnik, just before the roundabout you will see a hospital, still full of holes with .50bmg impact from a aircraft....

dunnyrail said:
Hm interesting Igor you really are into obscure
Click to expand...
Why let a great piece of history get into oblivion? if it was build 10 years later after reinforcing there railroad and changing there couplers or sell it to the us of a, it would probably do some real serves.

20_1.jpg20_2.jpg
 
tac foley said:
I made my comment about them being bottom-discharge cars based on the tapered shape of the lower part of the carbody - this aids the load movement when the bottom traps are opened.
Click to expand...
Back to topic.
Yes that tapered shape of the lower body part, i cant figure this one out, every comment is welcome!
Sometimes a carpenter can not find wood in a forest.
If i look at "normal" gondola's from that time, some have it and some don't.
The center beam just like the steal between the wheels is very crude, harsh and strait forward.
On modern cars, the break line is not underneath the valves but more at the side of the car, or am i completely wrong.
Could it be that it is not a steal beam we are looking at but a lengthwise valve?
vlcsnap-2021-01-10-13h00m43s330.png

Thanks for thinking along and input is appreciated.
 
I think i know more than anyone else about the aa20? and have all that there is on the net about the aa20....... except her cars...
Really nobody can regonice this car? or have a clue of the model of the car....or whatever something that looks like it?

vlcsnap-2021-01-10-13h00m30s094.pngvlcsnap-2021-01-10-13h00m43s330.pngvlcsnap-2021-01-10-13h01m05s012.png

Please people give me your best shot, i dont ask for 300 at 300 at 100 meters in the mush. just one bullet in this target.
Thanks tac! every shot is one

50% chance it was Canadian build.
Built before 1935 in or for the Soviet union.
Hauling coal.
Dont know nothing more, cant come up with nothing more, my knowledge is regarding this subject to young/small...
 
I think that chances of meeting up here with ANYBODY who knows any more about Soviet rail freight of the 1930's is as near to zero as it's possible to get.

Way back when, my plans to model Finnish railroads during the pre-Revolution days lasted about ten minutes, which was as long as it took me to discover that I was likely to be the only person on the planet doing so.

I could be wrong here, but I believe that right now we share that podium.
 
tac foley said:
I think that chances of meeting up here with ANYBODY who knows any more about Soviet rail freight of the 1930's is as near to zero as it's possible to get.

Way back when, my plans to model Finnish railroads during the pre-Revolution days lasted about ten minutes, which was as long as it took me to discover that I was likely to be the only person on the planet doing so.

I could be wrong here, but I believe that right now we share that podium.
Click to expand...

Это звучит о праве

David
 
Это, конечно, звучит как правда.
Но теперь на английском языке

Sounds true wisdom, but now in English :cool:
 
Yes i think also....to bad.
But it is always worth a shot, even in the dark.
But if it was for dutch cargo around 1930 i could be of assistance.
Thanks Tac Foley
 
You are welcome, I'm just sorry that I can't help you more... I know how frustrating modelling can be......however, I'm looking in my Guterwagen handbuch, bought at a fleamarket in East Germany many years ago, and MIGHT just be able to help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give me a few minutes to scan the pages, OK?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top