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Wireless inductive battery charging ??
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PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
Yes...
Advantages:
Less handling of models.
You don't misplace your charger.
Disadvantages:
Fixed charging point. - You can't take it with you.
Not particularly efficient. - Low current transfer. It will take many hours, to charge the batteries we use.
Not a good idea to 'just leave things running'. - You really want to be in the vicinity, keeping a weather-eye, on things.
An extra layer of complexity, for the user. - This is OK for those with the technical knowledge, especially if using Lithium-based battery technology.
Your battery toothbrush, is used for two minutes, and has all day to charge. - Most of these small units transfer 100mA or so..
Do the maths, for charging a 5000mAh battery.
PhilP
Advantages:
Less handling of models.
You don't misplace your charger.
Disadvantages:
Fixed charging point. - You can't take it with you.
Not particularly efficient. - Low current transfer. It will take many hours, to charge the batteries we use.
Not a good idea to 'just leave things running'. - You really want to be in the vicinity, keeping a weather-eye, on things.
An extra layer of complexity, for the user. - This is OK for those with the technical knowledge, especially if using Lithium-based battery technology.
Your battery toothbrush, is used for two minutes, and has all day to charge. - Most of these small units transfer 100mA or so..
Do the maths, for charging a 5000mAh battery.
PhilP
While not 'wireless charging' last time we went to the model village in Anglesea, the trains there had charging terminals, which looked like check rails, which charged the loco each time it stopped in the station. It seemed to be working OK, and as it was obviously a wiping contact under the loco, would be self cleaning, without the ugly 'skates' that stick out of some LGBs locos. I assume that they had a timer in the loco to restart after a set time in the station, as it only seemed to stop for 30 seconds or so in the station. I'm sure this could be done with the running rails and the loco pick-ups, but probably less reliably due to the general dirt that seems to form on the rails and wheels in the garden. What do others think.Yes...
Advantages:
Less handling of models.
You don't misplace your charger.
Disadvantages:
Fixed charging point. - You can't take it with you.
Not particularly efficient. - Low current transfer. It will take many hours, to charge the batteries we use.
Not a good idea to 'just leave things running'. - You really want to be in the vicinity, keeping a weather-eye, on things.
An extra layer of complexity, for the user. - This is OK for those with the technical knowledge, especially if using Lithium-based battery technology.
Your battery toothbrush, is used for two minutes, and has all day to charge. - Most of these small units transfer 100mA or so..
Do the maths, for charging a 5000mAh battery.
PhilP
David
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
It also means having all the intelligence to manage the batteries and charging, in each loco..
You can't rely on the integrity of the contact between loco and track, to manage this off the loco.
You are also reliant on the BMS board on the battery pack, with no easy way to check the individual cells.
PhilP
You can't rely on the integrity of the contact between loco and track, to manage this off the loco.
You are also reliant on the BMS board on the battery pack, with no easy way to check the individual cells.
PhilP
Yes, on reflection that is true, you would need effectively a charger minus the PSU in each loco to take care of various size/No. of cells/etc.. I assume that there is something like that in wireless charged devices, phones etc. but wether it is worth it for the convenience of wireless charging a loco for Chris, along with the extra time it would take, I suspect not.
Good to hear your input Phil and Jimmy.
David
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It seems that aliment of the 2 charging coils for charging is quite critical & would surmise that charging should be in a siding to have buffers or similar stop the train in an exact spot/location. The alternative is to have an led on the train light up when in the right place. Its all idea's at the moment.
This is all on my 0n30 lay out with the idea to use the idea on the garden layout.
At the moment a 2000mah battery,
This is all on my 0n30 lay out with the idea to use the idea on the garden layout.
At the moment a 2000mah battery,
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Ahh, this comes up every so often, and sounds like a great idea on the face of it, but it is not very practical.
Bottom line, the effort/cost to make it really work well is just not worth it.
First of all, there are INDEED high current transfer wireless systems, but they are too expensive for us, you cannot get the loops close enough to make it work with any reasonable cost. If you have put a thin plastic case on a cell phone with a wireless charger you know this already.
So, you would need to do contacts to charge the battery. This works, and is often used on those layouts with the little cars that run around and you don't have metal rails.
The next obstacle is one that is mentioned, you MUST have the charger in the loco, and to be worthwhile, it must be a fast and intelligent charger.... That can be done, but now you are adding extra cost, probably close to the cost and bulk of the battery.
You need a charger that can correctly "restart" from power interruptions.
So, wireless, no, with contacts yes, but you will incur a lot of extra space and cost penalties to accomplish. Bigger batteries would be a more reasonable alternative, or batteries that can be quickly swapped out.
Remember that even with a fast charger, you still have to wait a bit, and also you would choose battery packs that would tolerate C or higher charging rates (C is amp hours)
A bit more on the charging rate: a 5000 milliamp hour battery has a "C" of 5 amp hours. Fast charging to be useful is multiples of C, so even just 2C is a 10 amp rate, now your contacts need to be weatherproof and handle pretty darn high current, another maintenance nightmare.
Greg
Bottom line, the effort/cost to make it really work well is just not worth it.
First of all, there are INDEED high current transfer wireless systems, but they are too expensive for us, you cannot get the loops close enough to make it work with any reasonable cost. If you have put a thin plastic case on a cell phone with a wireless charger you know this already.
So, you would need to do contacts to charge the battery. This works, and is often used on those layouts with the little cars that run around and you don't have metal rails.
The next obstacle is one that is mentioned, you MUST have the charger in the loco, and to be worthwhile, it must be a fast and intelligent charger.... That can be done, but now you are adding extra cost, probably close to the cost and bulk of the battery.
You need a charger that can correctly "restart" from power interruptions.
So, wireless, no, with contacts yes, but you will incur a lot of extra space and cost penalties to accomplish. Bigger batteries would be a more reasonable alternative, or batteries that can be quickly swapped out.
Remember that even with a fast charger, you still have to wait a bit, and also you would choose battery packs that would tolerate C or higher charging rates (C is amp hours)
A bit more on the charging rate: a 5000 milliamp hour battery has a "C" of 5 amp hours. Fast charging to be useful is multiples of C, so even just 2C is a 10 amp rate, now your contacts need to be weatherproof and handle pretty darn high current, another maintenance nightmare.
Greg
The real disadvantage from my perspective would be that my locomotives would need to be left in one of my sheds whilst charging. Not good as I tend to bring my locomotives indoors after a running session for security. Not that much of a chore as I tend to use 4-5 only at such times.
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Its nice to hear the pros & cons. My new idea is converting my buffers into a jack pug sockets & parking the train at 5mph. "yes i am joking" ??
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
I think an often overlooked advantage of having to physically connect to the charger, is it gives you an opportunity to give the model a quick look - over:
Did I remember to switch it off?
Does it look like it needs a wipe-over?
Do any places need a spot of oil?
Has anything dropped-off, or been damaged?
If you do this, at the end of a session, you know you can pick up a loco and just run it. - Having eye-balled the track, for obstructions, obviously.
PhilP
Did I remember to switch it off?
Does it look like it needs a wipe-over?
Do any places need a spot of oil?
Has anything dropped-off, or been damaged?
If you do this, at the end of a session, you know you can pick up a loco and just run it. - Having eye-balled the track, for obstructions, obviously.
PhilP
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Chris, it CAN be done, and for certain running styles, it might be great, but I think you will have to have very high current charging to make it worthwhile, and you are back to the issue of having weatherproof connections that can handle 5 or more amps outdoors. Making them engage automatically and keep conductivity and weatherproof would be a great challenge.
If your charging plugs and sockets were protected from weather, had high current capability, they would probably have to be manual connectors, and there goes the convenience factor.
I'd suggest lift off hatches, compact and quickly swappable Lithium Ion battery packs. No extra space used for internal charger, no maintenance issues with weatherproof high current contacts.
Greg
If your charging plugs and sockets were protected from weather, had high current capability, they would probably have to be manual connectors, and there goes the convenience factor.
I'd suggest lift off hatches, compact and quickly swappable Lithium Ion battery packs. No extra space used for internal charger, no maintenance issues with weatherproof high current contacts.
Greg