Wood Drying Time

[DafyddElvy]

I have a piece of solid wood 300mm x 95mm x 20mm, which has not entirely unexpectedly warped along its length.

The piece of wood was cut from the best and flattest length I have to form the base for a jig, on which I will assemble tram trucks.

Q) I have had said piece of wood for about 2 years and it has been kept in an indoor environment, can I now assume that the piece of wood has fully dried out and if I plane it flat it won't just warp further.

My knowledge of wood is as low as I think any persons could be, I know it comes from trees and I know it burns, I don't want to start making my jig only to find the piece of wood warps any the jog making was a failure, thanks

 

[Rhinochugger]

Are we talking softwood?

 

[DafyddElvy]

Are we talking softwood?

I think so, sawn finished wood from a timber merchant, as I said, I know next to hehaw about wood, thanks

 

[PhilP]

Wood 'moves'. - Especially softwood, so it will be change shape, as the humidity in the air varies.

Depending how it was cut, is the main cause of finished wood warping, that and not seasoning for long enough. - It is kiln-dried (mainly) then processed, before the fibres can settle, so it twists and warps.

If you have had it for some time. I would cut / plane to rough oversize dimensions, then leave it as long as possible. - It may well warp further.


If you want something more stable, then a good, old piece of hardwood, will be a lot more stable. - Something from a scrap piece of 'brown' furniture.

PhilP

 

[JimmyB]

Q) I have had said piece of wood for about 2 years and it has been kept in an indoor environment, can I now assume that the piece of wood has fully dried out and if I plane it flat it won't just warp further.

No, what humidity was it kept in, less than 50% RH, how dry do you want it.

You don’t want wood fully dry, and it will always move. It will absorb and loose water, and change state.

 

[David1226]

If you want to do your own thing, you could always form a splinter group.

David

 

[Rhinochugger]

I think so, sawn finished wood from a timber merchant, as I said, I know next to hehaw about wood, thanks

In theory, after a couple of years in a given environment, assuming that the parameters of that environment don't change, it ought remain stable, but ...................

I bought a wooden kit from a forum member, and the kit had spent time in a number of different environments, and I left it in my study (where I would build it) for a few months.

All of the small timber pieces were straight and true, but as soon as I started glueing it together, a day or so after glueing, the finished items started to warp. Why?

Usually, if you want a dead flat surface for setting things true, you'd use glass: a piece of polycarbonate is the modern equivalent, and on a workbench it should be fine.

 

[David1226]

In theory, after a couple of years in a given environment, assuming that the parameters of that environment don't change, it ought remain stable, but ...................

I bought a wooden kit from a forum member, and the kit had spent time in a number of different environments, and I left it in my study (where I would build it) for a few months.

All of the small timber pieces were straight and true, but as soon as I started glueing it together, a day or so after glueing, the finished items started to warp. Why?

Usually, if you want a dead flat surface for setting things true, you'd use glass: a piece of polycarbonate is the modern equivalent, and on a workbench it should be fine.

Yew should be oak with most poplar kits but if you make a balsa of it and burn it you will just end up with ash, then pine for what might have been on your way to the beech.

David

 

[Gtarling]

Use plywood for the jig - far less likely to move.

G.

 

[Paul M]

Yew should be oak with most poplar kits but if you make a balsa of it and burn it you will just end up with ash, then pine for what might have been on your way to the beech.

David

Still no groan emoji

 

[Madman]

I built our kitchen table from the wood saved when we had the giant Pin Oak tree cut down near our house. We brought the log to a sawmill and they cut it up into 1 1/4" slabs. I stored the wood under cover but not indoors for two years. Even placed sticking between each board.

I built the table by joining the boards with wood splines I made from the same lumber. All glued up and clamped for a week. SWMBO stained and varnished the finished table. It was and still is in our kitchen being enjoyed every day. However, a few weeks after we brought the table into the house, we started hearing loud bangs. Though I thought the wood was dry enough, it still may have had just enough moisture, so that when indoors, it dried out even more.

Red Oak is not the most ideal wood for furniture building, but its use was more sentimental than practical.

 

[justme igor]

"master" carpenter here.
Wood will never stop working, think of wine barrels.
The only correct way to tread fresh wood is cut a tree down, let it air dry for 1 year and throw the trunk into a canal for 3 months, let it dry again.
The best dry wood is when it is end of the summer.
The meaning of this old fashion method is to get all the tension out of the wood.
In this world we live in now, we want everything fast and cheap.
So we cut down a tree and in three!!!months it is in the store as timber or paper.

All wood regardless the type/species (even palisander bankirai oak mahogany ect), will expand and shrink with the relative humidity that is in your air, one more than the other.
The best "tension" free wood (what will not wrap/deform) is wood that was giving the attention as mentioned before 1 year 3 months and 1 year.

If having a piece of wood 2 years in the house, the odds are it is tension free, but to make sure, place it in the rain and dry it again.
After three weeks minimum inside again(best is to let it air dry outside under a roof) most tension is out.

A side note: I have seen beams up to 30cm in height and 7,5cm in width 3 meters in length wrapping in 1 day of rain, or even in full sun.
Smaller pieces are not so affected by this, but they will endure.

To answer your quistion:
You can plain it, but keep the wood in the same conditions. No warranty here.
Or soak it 1 week in water, three weeks drying, to get the tension out of the wood, then plane, for the best quility.

There are two more "master" carpenters here that i know, i hope the chime in.

As a other member suggested, buy yourself a piece of 18mm thick plywood.
If you know someone that has exces to waist wood ask him/her for "exterior" multiplex 22mm, you will be in heaven.

I built our kitchen table from the wood saved when we had the giant Pin Oak tree cut down near our house. We brought the log to a sawmill and they cut it up into 1 1/4" slabs. I stored the wood under cover but not indoors for two years. Even placed sticking between each board.

I really would love to see a picture of that table, those kind of projects makes my heart go faster.
For two years now we have a chestnut cut up in logs and some conivera, just unprotected outside. they will move this autum into the shed for work for next year to make a..... kitchen counter.
So then i have to gently wake up my big saw table.....very gently(sometimes he is a cranky old machine)

With best regards Igor

 

[Madman]

"master" carpenter here.
Wood will never stop working, think of wine barrels.
The only correct way to tread fresh wood is cut a tree down, let it air dry for 1 year and throw the trunk into a canal for 3 months, let it dry again.
The best dry wood is when it is end of the summer.
The meaning of this old fashion method is to get all the tension out of the wood.
In this world we live in now, we want everything fast and cheap.
So we cut down a tree and in three!!!months it is in the store as timber or paper.

All wood regardless the type/species (even palisander bankirai oak mahogany ect), will expand and shrink with the relative humidity that is in your air, one more than the other.
The best "tension" free wood (what will not wrap/deform) is wood that was giving the attention as mentioned before 1 year 3 months and 1 year.

If having a piece of wood 2 years in the house, the odds are it is tension free, but to make sure, place it in the rain and dry it again.
After three weeks minimum inside again(best is to let it air dry outside under a roof) most tension is out.

A side note: I have seen beams up to 30cm in height and 7,5cm in width 3 meters in length wrapping in 1 day of rain, or even in full sun.
Smaller pieces are not so affected by this, but they will endure.

To answer your quistion:
You can plain it, but keep the wood in the same conditions. No warranty here.
Or soak it 1 week in water, three weeks drying, to get the tension out of the wood, then plane, for the best quility.

There are two more "master" carpenters here that i know, i hope the chime in.

As a other member suggested, buy yourself a piece of 18mm thick plywood.
If you know someone that has exces to waist wood ask him/her for "exterior" multiplex 22mm, you will be in heaven.



I really would love to see a picture of that table, those kind of projects makes my heart go faster.
For two years now we have a chestnut cut up in logs and some conivera, just unprotected outside. they will move this autum into the shed for work for next year to make a..... kitchen counter.
So then i have to gently wake up my big saw table.....very gently(sometimes he is a cranky old machine)

With best regards IgorAsk and you shall receive.

The first three pictures are the kitchen table. Made from this tree.

This is a table I made for D2 from the same tree. Then two benches, also from the tree.


Something went wrong with the uploading as duplicate pictures seem to have uploaded to my post.

 

[justme igor]

 

[DafyddElvy]

18mm plywood has been suggested as a better option to plain wood.
Well the attached photo is a piece of 18mm ply I cut around 2.5 years ago as the partner to the baseboard end board fitted to my 0 gauge layout, I cut the end board and drilled locating holes just incase I ever decided to extend the layout.
After being in the same room as the layout since i purchased the timber, this puece has been in the same room as the layout. I think it's safe to say this piece of timber could only be useful if crating bananas.

I've had a very painful lesson buying any type of wood from B&Q, I had to scrape a base board with 100% scratch built track that had some complicated track laid on it, so I only buy wood of any type from a proper timber merchant, and I always leave any wood for at least 2 months before I use it.

I am now at the stage of asking others to supply me with baseboards such is my level of dispear with wood supplied to the public.

 

[justme igor]

Where did you get that piece from?!?!? bow (and arrow) fabric? or at a rowing boats association...

I would sell it with good profit as a ramp for tracks.
Jokes aside, so many questions i have.
If the pieces you want are not to big, i could send some from the Netherlands? maybe shipping is expensive?

Or make a frame first where you can screw down your wood.
I will make you a drawing.

 

[DafyddElvy]

Where did you get that piece from?!?!? bow (and arrow) fabric? or at a rowing boats association...

I would sell it with good profit as a ramp for tracks.
Jokes aside, so many questions i have.
If the pieces you want are not to big, i could send some from the Netherlands? maybe shipping is expensive?

Or make a frame first where you can screw down your wood.
I will make you a drawing.

Thanks Justme Igor,

Forgot I have someone who does things with wood, like build sash windows, I'm going to see if he can help, I've no doubt he'll just smile at me and ask where I got my wood, and how long have I been trying to sort something.

 

[PhilP]

There was (possibly still is) plywood about with only five-ply layers, and layers '2' and '4' are much thicker than layers '1', '3', and '5'
.
To get greater thicknesses, these two layers can be many times thicker than the others, and the grain of these two thick layers was in the same direction.

This created great stress in the material, and was a recipe for disaster.

This was many years ago, as it was when my Father was in the industry, and I had a Saturday/Holiday job at the same employer..

PhilP

 

[dunnyrail]

18mm plywood has been suggested as a better option to plain wood.
Well the attached photo is a piece of 18mm ply I cut around 2.5 years ago as the partner to the baseboard end board fitted to my 0 gauge layout, I cut the end board and drilled locating holes just incase I ever decided to extend the layout.
After being in the same room as the layout since i purchased the timber, this puece has been in the same room as the layout. I think it's safe to say this piece of timber could only be useful if crating bananas.

I've had a very painful lesson buying any type of wood from B&Q, I had to scrape a base board with 100% scratch built track that had some complicated track laid on it, so I only buy wood of any type from a proper timber merchant, and I always leave any wood for at least 2 months before I use it.

I am now at the stage of asking others to supply me with baseboards such is my level of dispear with wood supplied to the public.

Hm many years ago I made baseboards from ply bought at BnQ. I got the ply cut for baseboard size and the rest as 2 inch strips for side and cross supports. All was constructed using PVA and small wire nails. This was some 26 years ago and the baseboards today are as flat and even as the day I built them. I think key is to not worry too much about how it looks as the effect of opposite end construction with plenty of diagonal cross bracing and edge ones keep things stable. All of the bracing shown in this drawing underneath top board. In my case I used approx 3-4mm ply for 0 gauge baseboards up to 4x2 feet in size. I did use 2x1 inch timber at baseboards ends for joining strength using nuts and bolts for added strength. The boards were very light and easily transportable, visiting some 15-20 shows around the country in the day. They now sit in my lift stored sefely in their cardboard boxes made from large sheets of corrugated cardboard.

 

[DafyddElvy]

Hm many years ago I made baseboards from ply bought at BnQ. I got the ply cut for baseboard size and the rest as 2 inch strips for side and cross supports. All was constructed using PVA and small wire nails. This was some 26 years ago and the baseboards today are as flat and even as the day I built them. I think key is to not worry too much about how it looks as the effect of opposite end construction with plenty of diagonal cross bracing and edge ones keep things stable. All of the bracing shown in this drawing underneath top board. In my case I used approx 3-4mm ply for 0 gauge baseboards up to 4x2 feet in size. I did use 2x1 inch timber at baseboards ends for joining strength using nuts and bolts for added strength. The boards were very light and easily transportable, visiting some 15-20 shows around the country in the day. They now sit in my lift stored sefely in their cardboard boxes made from large sheets of corrugated cardboard.
View attachment 316844

Jon, the baseboard I built which failed was constructed in exactly the same way as I and the club have always done, with a box sectional type framing with distances between the framing of no more than 350mm, the 2 baseboards were built in the spare room, and from memory were 600mm x 900mm, several of the areas between the framing dished between 3mm - 8mm, the worst was under a a tamdem turnout.
several modelling colleagues came round, one to see what I might have done wrong, and secondly to see if the baseboards could be recovered. The conclusion was I had been extremely unlucky in buying very poorly made ply.
Wood purchased at the same time by a colleague who is so fastidious about everything he does (a##l) after three years has dips appearing in one of his baseboards, and the fiddleyard sector plate which has above board solid wood longitudinal framing has warped along its length and has now been replaced so it can attend Guildex this year.

If it was just myself having wood problems I could accept that it was me, because wood and I have never been the best of friends, but with this particular person also having problems with plywood, I am confident enough to say its a wood problem.

I have some badly assembled baseboard kits I picked up second-hand which have laid stacked for about a year now, last week I put a straight edge against them just to check my storage method was causing them to warp, and they are fine, thinner ply of a different wood type, probably a more expensive manufacturing process.

Its only in the last few years I have encountered problems with ply wood, my old two layout baseboards are fine, they have a curved section which was cut along its curved length to create a rising gradient, and nae problems.

But we digress again, my query was about using a piece of solid timber as the base for a jig, I have decided I'll get a small sheet of HDF and use a piece cut from that for my jig.

As regards baseboards, I have contacted a baseboard manufacturer with my own size and spec requirements for my planned large scale tramway layout, I am just waiting on the scary bit of being told what the baseboards will cost, not the option I want to go with but I am not building another layout with the worry of a problem sitting at the back of my mind.


Thanks all for your comments and advice, much appreciated as always.