Are you wary of Li-Po batteries?

The current view is that he failed to discharge his obligations but still has the capacity to be shocked.

David
 
So my Safari didn't quite like the video as it was and wanted me to download something to see it. I chose not to. So tell me what happened in the film.
 
Mmmm. I had an early soft cased lipo battery in an rc heli. I dropped it in my workshop. It burnt, spontaneously like a welders torch, so not easy to deal with even if you are there!!! Fortuantely concrete floor saved the day. However what if you had an accident like that in the house? I dont allow them in but many people do.

Thd thing is they are a huge amount of energy in a tiny space so what do you expect? At least in my simple mind.

There are very few garden rail applications that need lipo, so i go with nimh.
 
If you carry a modern cell phone in your pocket then you probably are carrying one of these batteries very close to family jewels. ??? :) :) :) :)
 
So, in simple terms what ACTUALLY causes these batteries to ignite? Is it physical damage, internal failure, or user error like overcharging or too-fast charging without the necessary protective circuitry?

Or can this just happen randomly with any Li-ion pack, and it's just pure dumb luck?

Jon.
 
The Tinker said:
Mostly user error. Charging to fast or stupidity
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Thanks..... the reason I asked is that I have a li-ion pack (a good quality, quite expensive Ansmann pack made from cylindrical cells) which has a built-in control and safety circuit board. It is to be installed in the body of an LGB loco (a 2095), and opening the loco to remove the pack is not something that I'd want to have to do every time I need to charge it. I will NOT be fast-charging it at all, but a sensible slow trickle-charge from a matching charger bought from the same supplier as the battery (CPC Farnell, who I think are pretty reputable?).
So, bearing in mind that this is NOT a cheap unprotected Chinese battery being fast-charged - is leaving the battery inside the loco while charging any more dangerous than, say, leaving my smartphone on charge overnight....?

Jon.
 
I have done two locos the same way. Matching charger and protection board, and slow charging seems to be OK. 99 percent of charging issues and batteries burning are caused by faulty workmanship or excessive current in or out of the battery. So picking one to suit the current draw and use is important. Also not running them dead flat is important.
 
ROSS said:
Lets not confuse Lithium POLY batteries with Lith ION batteries.

The former usually have no safety PCB in them to shut off over voltage or over discharge.

Lith Ions do.
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Sorry Ross it is not true to say that all li-ion batteries are protected, from over voltage and over discharge. You can get individual batteries that are protected, it is possible to get a protection board to protect groups of batteries and you can buy protected groups of batteries pre built into a pack with a protection board (as Jon refers to above). However some li-ion batteries you can buy have no protection at all.

Treated correctly li-po and li-ion batteries are no more dangerous than the batteries in your mobile phone.
 
THREAD DRIFT ON
Are these the things that grounded Boeing Dream Liners? The plane that I will NEVER fly in? The other thing about Dream Liners if you watche them take off their Wing Tips look like they may touch they flex up so much. Scary.
THREAD DRIFT OFF

LiPo never will use them unless I do not know I am, certainly would not choose them for my Trains or near my Tackle.
JonD
 
Am I wary of LiPo batteries?

Well NO, not really.

No more wary than I am of crossing the road, driving a car or lighting a fire in a house fireplace.
All can be deadly, but we choose to mitigate the risks in various ways.
 
gregh said:
Am I wary of LiPo batteries?

Well NO, not really.

No more wary than I am of crossing the road, driving a car or lighting a fire in a house fireplace.
All can be deadly, but we choose to mitigate the risks in various ways.
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Quite, Greg.... we all subconsciously assess the probabilities of different events and choose which risks to take (well, some of us do.... I think others just blindly blunder through life...!).
I guess the question is something like: if there is a 0.00001% chance that a good, protected Li-ion battery will melt my loco and/or burn down my house each time I charge it, that is probably a small enough risk to not worry about. If, on the other hand, the risk was 1%, it should probably be avoided.... ;)

Jon.
 
The moral of this story thus would be:
Don't try and save money by using any Li-Po or Li-Ion packs in our trains unless they do have a protection circuit built in. Just like phones and computers do.
IMHO opinion it should be illegal to sell packs that can be dangerous to consumers who, as has been so aptly described above, can cause themselves no end of grief if they are careless.
 
Yes, it does seem crazy in this over-H&S-conscious world that it is still permissible to sell/buy "unprotected" packs.... I'm guessing that it isn't always JUST about saving money, it's also (particularly in the case of the electric flight boys) about saving weight...?

Jon.
 
It's all about knowing the risks and high to mitigate them correctly

I use 3s aircraft packs in my locos, and they are all charged with the correct charger ( 800ma with the correct 3s socket on)

I also attach a 2 amp self resetting fuse to each battery pack for more protection during use and charging.

I also don't leave battery attended during charging, if I had to I would find a suitable location and use a fireproof bag/container

Dan
 
Zerogee said:
Yes, it does seem crazy in this over-H&S-conscious world that it is still permissible to sell/buy "unprotected" packs....

Jon.
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Well it's still legal to cigarettes too. They have warnings and so do LiPo batteries (at least the ones I bought last do)

I use 'unprotected' LiPos all the time so I don't see a reason to 'ban' them because of mis-information. My battery charger does all the overvoltage protection needed.
 
Since when has anyone heard of someone becoming addicted to smoking batteries?
Unprotected Lithium batteries should be banned. Period. To protect the idiots from themselves.
 
Tony Walsham said:
Unprotected Lithium batteries should be banned. Period. To protect the idiots from themselves.
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Hmmmm ... unless, maybe, you use an ESC with built-in protection against over-discharge of lipos - such as Deltang / RCS?? ;D

The latest Rx65 automatically senses if it's connected to a 1S, 2S or 3S Lipo and then cuts the supply if it drops below the safe level.

Rik
 
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