Battery powered track

seigezapf

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I am pretty sure this has been addressed before, but I have not run across it. I'm sorry if it is redundant. I started to wonder if rather then powering the locomotives with batteries, I powered the track with a battery. I honestly did not expect this to work well.

First of all, what battery? What I had available was a Hobbico sealed 12v 7aH rechargeable battery. I tried it on a test section and it worked. Next I hooked it up to my outdoor track. An HRW Mack made it all the way around. Hmmm. I have cleaned debris from my track, but have not been concerned about whether the rails were all that clean. It has been out in snow and rain and falling leaves and such for over a year. I was surprised. Next I tried an Aristo RS3. Again it made it fine though seemed to slow in some areas. So I hooked a track cleaner caboose to the front of the RS3 and ran it around a few times. It ran smoother each time.

This is the test set-up I used.



The battery is 12v so the locomotive does not speed, but keeps up a decent pace. I have no idea how long this battery would last, but at least 5-10 minutes in my test. So I looked for batteries. The only 18v batteries I found were tool batteries. I finally found some that might work - rechargeable wheelchair batteries. Again they are only 12v (18 AH/20HR) that are meant to be hooked up in series to be 24v. The ones I bought were rated to carry a 180lb man 19 miles in an electric wheelchair (at 24v). I figure that might work. I had thought of a car battery, but the amperage in those things is too scary.

What I then need is a control for motor speed and direction. These are plentiful on eBay.



As mentioned I was surprised that the locos I tried had no trouble getting power all the away around the track. Maybe that will change, but it is promising. I'd love to find am 18 volt sealed rechargeable battery with a decent capacity. I'll bet someone makes them. And this is a simple control - no control of sound and such. There may be a way to do that too.
 
I am pretty sure this has been addressed before, but I have not run across it. I'm sorry if it is redundant. I started to wonder if rather then powering the locomotives with batteries, I powered the track with a battery. I honestly did not expect this to work well.

First of all, what battery? What I had available was a Hobbico sealed 12v 7aH rechargeable battery. I tried it on a test section and it worked. Next I hooked it up to my outdoor track. An HRW Mack made it all the way around. Hmmm. I have cleaned debris from my track, but have not been concerned about whether the rails were all that clean. It has been out in snow and rain and falling leaves and such for over a year. I was surprised. Next I tried an Aristo RS3. Again it made it fine though seemed to slow in some areas. So I hooked a track cleaner caboose to the front of the RS3 and ran it around a few times. It ran smoother each time.

This is the test set-up I used.



The battery is 12v so the locomotive does not speed, but keeps up a decent pace. I have no idea how long this battery would last, but at least 5-10 minutes in my test. So I looked for batteries. The only 18v batteries I found were tool batteries. I finally found some that might work - rechargeable wheelchair batteries. Again they are only 12v (18 AH/20HR) that are meant to be hooked up in series to be 24v. The ones I bought were rated to carry a 180lb man 19 miles in an electric wheelchair (at 24v). I figure that might work. I had thought of a car battery, but the amperage in those things is too scary.

What I then need is a control for motor speed and direction. These are plentiful on eBay.



As mentioned I was surprised that the locos I tried had no trouble getting power all the away around the track. Maybe that will change, but it is promising. I'd love to find am 18 volt sealed rechargeable battery with a decent capacity. I'll bet someone makes them. And this is a simple control - no control of sound and such. There may be a way to do that too.

An out of the box suggestion try searching for a solar powered trickle charger for the battery and it should stay topped up all the time.

Something along the lines of this which I am planning on using for lighting on my layout.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/solar-panel-charger-kit-12v-20w/p/ZM9052
 
When you think about it, there is absolutely no reason why it SHOULDN'T work - after all, you're doing exactly the same as any analogue track-powered setup - simply supplying DC to the rails, it doesn't matter if that DC is coming direct from a big battery or from the mains via a transformer and rectifier, the loco neither knows nor cares.... ;)

Jon.
 
Thanks GAP. I have one of those (Battery Tender) hooked up to a seldom driven car in my garage. It works great. I hadn't thought about it for the track battery. Hmmm. That would make a semi-permanent location possible. I had figured to lug the batteries in and out of my house.

My concern Jon was that a battery wouldn't supply enough power, but you are right, it provides as much power as a regular train transformer would.

The battery idea is attractive to me because otherwise I would have to run a 100' extension cord to the track for mains power.
 
Thanks GAP. I have one of those (Battery Tender) hooked up to a seldom driven car in my garage. It works great. I hadn't thought about it for the track battery. Hmmm. That would make a semi-permanent location possible. I had figured to lug the batteries in and out of my house.

My concern Jon was that a battery wouldn't supply enough power, but you are right, it provides as much power as a regular train transformer would.

The battery idea is attractive to me because otherwise I would have to run a 100' extension cord to the track for mains power.

Hide the battery in a building made from weatherproof material which is my plan.
 
Actually while both a transformer and a battery can deliver the same voltage, that battery can deliver way more amperage than a transformer (most of them).

Be sure to put a fuse on it, 3-5 amps, otherwise a derailment with a short could melt a lot of stuff inside your loco.

Greg

by the way, say your loco draws an amp... an 18 AmpHour battery can supply approximately 1 amp for 18 hours... plenty of run time.
 
I have in mind building a small shed adjacent to the track to keep the trains - maybe a short 3' by 5' with a single slope roof. That would be a good place for the battery, but unfortunately it is in the trees. The solar Battery Tender does have a 20 foot cable so maybe I could put it in a sunny spot. If you build yours I'd love to see a photo. I think that you may be talking about a G scale building, right?
 
Thanks Greg. Yes an important thing to do I probably would not have done. The fuse is inserted in the positive lead from the battery right?
 
Update: I found an 18v battery (7AH). It is for a Minimoto electric scooter. Actually it is three 6volt batteries hooked up in series (see below). I can buy the three 6v batteries separately for a lot cheaper than buying the 18v replacement and wire them myself.





I'll give it a try and see what works better. The motor speed control I bought takes an input of 12-40v.
 
Update: I found an 18v battery (7AH). It is for a Minimoto electric scooter. Actually it is three 6volt batteries hooked up in series (see below). I can buy the three 6v batteries separately for a lot cheaper than buying the 18v replacement and wire them myself.





I'll give it a try and see what works better. The motor speed control I bought takes an input of 12-40v.

Nothing wrong with battery powered track - my trailer set-up runs on a 12v car battery (55 amp hour - fused at 3amp). If battery is in good condition it will deliver just over 14 volts - although that will drop off to around 12 to 13 after a while.

Most of my locos are Bachmann, with the the odd USAt, Aristo, etc.Don't know how 18 volt would affect the Bs as they seem to run on less than 18v. But I like your thinking!
 
Dont forget if you manage to get Solar Recharging sorted, when the World runs out of Coal, Oil, Gas etc you will still be able to play Trains. Very satisfying me thinks.
JonD
 
I have in mind building a small shed adjacent to the track to keep the trains - maybe a short 3' by 5' with a single slope roof. That would be a good place for the battery, but unfortunately it is in the trees. The solar Battery Tender does have a 20 foot cable so maybe I could put it in a sunny spot. If you build yours I'd love to see a photo. I think that you may be talking about a G scale building, right?

G scale building, out in the sun.. PV's on the roof (proto-typical), and a pair of wires to the shed where the batteries are.
:rock::rock::angel:
 
I am pretty sure this has been addressed before, but I have not run across it. I'm sorry if it is redundant. I started to wonder if rather then powering the locomotives with batteries, I powered the track with a battery. I honestly did not expect this to work well.

First of all, what battery? What I had available was a Hobbico sealed 12v 7aH rechargeable battery. I tried it on a test section and it worked. Next I hooked it up to my outdoor track. An HRW Mack made it all the way around. Hmmm. I have cleaned debris from my track, but have not been concerned about whether the rails were all that clean. It has been out in snow and rain and falling leaves and such for over a year. I was surprised. Next I tried an Aristo RS3. Again it made it fine though seemed to slow in some areas. So I hooked a track cleaner caboose to the front of the RS3 and ran it around a few times. It ran smoother each time.

This is the test set-up I used.



The battery is 12v so the locomotive does not speed, but keeps up a decent pace. I have no idea how long this battery would last, but at least 5-10 minutes in my test. So I looked for batteries. The only 18v batteries I found were tool batteries. I finally found some that might work - rechargeable wheelchair batteries. Again they are only 12v (18 AH/20HR) that are meant to be hooked up in series to be 24v. The ones I bought were rated to carry a 180lb man 19 miles in an electric wheelchair (at 24v). I figure that might work. I had thought of a car battery, but the amperage in those things is too scary.

What I then need is a control for motor speed and direction. These are plentiful on eBay.



As mentioned I was surprised that the locos I tried had no trouble getting power all the away around the track. Maybe that will change, but it is promising. I'd love to find am 18 volt sealed rechargeable battery with a decent capacity. I'll bet someone makes them. And this is a simple control - no control of sound and such. There may be a way to do that too.


Would you have the Ebay link to the speed control ?
 
Thanks Trammayo for the compliment and I like your idea Jon, though the other parts of life might become difficult. That is a nice image Phil. I have so many trees that sunlight is precious, but I'm sure it can be worked out.

Dan, here is a link to the type of speed controller I showed. There are several on eBay - this is one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Motor-Sp...926519?hash=item1a12e1a177:g:Et4AAOSwZetXOXGe I just searched for a motor speed controller with reverse that would operate on 12v.

In further thinking, I have been leaning toward a speed control with a remote. I'm going to try that out with a Pololu robotic motor controller that can be controlled with a DSM receiver and transmitter. I would eventually want a simple remote and think the one shown below might work well (though only designed for 12v). It does have a "momentum" feature that might be useful. Here is a link to it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261902533498?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT



It is interesting that I can find a lot of this sort of stuff in Asia, but not much here (I would prefer a US seller).

Now to start thinking of a shed design while waiting for my battery components to arrive.
 
If you're looking for a high current source of DC, old switchmode power supplies from computers are readily available. You can pick them up by the dozen off the nature strip, and they typically will provide tens of amps at a regulated 12v. Laptop power supplies are often 50-70w at 19v, 3-4 amps. The desktop power supplies have the bonus of having a regulated 5v and 3v rail as well, which might be handy for lighting and stuff.

IMG_8120.jpg


Typical ATX desktop power supply from the rubbish. Rated maximum output of 18a at 12v.
 
Thank you. Maybe I don't understand completely. I believe those power supplies require AC input. I don't have easy access to mains power so am trying out battery power ideas. So far it looks promising.
 
Thank you. Maybe I don't understand completely. I believe those power supplies require AC input. I don't have easy access to mains power so am trying out battery power ideas. So far it looks promising.

They do indeed, and that's a good reason to use battery power.

I had a similar problem with mains power access, ended up having one of these inside with just the low voltage going out to the garden. A bit easier and safer than trying to get mains power out there.
 
Aha. No I did not understand. That's a great idea. Running a low power line does sound safer. My problem still would be having to run 100 ft across a lawn from my house to my track. Right now battery power is a better option.
 
In further thinking, I have been leaning toward a speed control with a remote. I'm going to try that out with a Pololu robotic motor controller that can be controlled with a DSM receiver and transmitter.

I use a Syren 10 robotics controller in my 3 truck shay, it works really well plus it has regenerative braking. Self calibrates to the throttle stick position at switch on.
I use a cheap R/C transmitter/ receiver combo that I bought from Hobbyking for about $25. Not DSM but then again I do not like tying myself to one protocol in R/C and try to stay generic as there is a greater selection and can be cheaper.
 
Hello GAP, thanks for the information. I had not hear of Syren before but I know there are a lot of manufacturers, especially in robotics, who are making different control devices. The DSM transmitters that I am familiar with are a bit too cumbersome for me, but I already have the components to try stuff. I like what I have read about Deltang.
 
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