Bimodal loco conversion

Greg Elmassian said:
Rhino... did you add pickups to the tenders of your troublesome steamers? I find that makes a big difference, and also helps going over dead frogs..

Greg
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Greg, thanks, yes I have - yep and it certainly helps as I have a couple of #6 points (turnouts) that I have converted to dead frog to help with continuity on other sections of the blades / rails.

The main issue is where the track gets a very slight something or other at the end of the day, and you can keep the locos running, but only at a speed that is beyond protoypical for the narrow gauge - or at least looks too fast. Running DC inevitably means that reducing the speed reduces the voltage and for both reasons (lower speed and not rushing over muckier spots) the locos tend to stutter or stall.

Generally, they'll run OK at a quicker speed, but I'm getting a bit fussy about the speed of my trains :think::think::think:
 
Interesting, I have no issues with wet rails, and once I have added tender pickups, no running issues at all, perhaps it is my stainless steel rails? I'm just curious because you emphasized very clean rail.

Do you get significant oxidation in a short time? Do you live near the ocean?

On second thought, even though most of my tenders are unsprung, I add weight to them, since most are supplied ungodly light and stringline easily.

Again, just curious.

Greg
 
Zerogee said:
Well, in my case the reasoning was simple - I wanted to have a battery loco that I could take to run when visiting lines that had dead rails, but also to retain the ability to run it on track powered DCC (or DC for that matter) at home, or visiting lines that had track power. While I removed the skates from both converted locos, I left all the wheel pickups in place, they are simply connected through the DPDT track/battery selector switch.
Sometimes I simply want to be able to drive the locos on my regular Massoth DCC control system rather than having to use a separate radio handset.

Jon.
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Exactly why I have done the same. In my case, the battery and control are in a following car. I can use just that one car to run either of my two dual mode locos. One of my locos (Aristocraft FA-1) came complete with the switch. The other, an Aristocraft Critter was converted by feeding the track power to one end of the DPDT switch, the other end receives battery power, and the centre contacts feed the motor. I wired mine so that switch 'down' is for rail pick up, and switch 'up', for battery. The trials and tribulations of this set up can be read on my thread Taita Gorge Railway.
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Interesting, I have no issues with wet rails, and once I have added tender pickups, no running issues at all, perhaps it is my stainless steel rails? I'm just curious because you emphasized very clean rail.

Do you get significant oxidation in a short time? Do you live near the ocean?

On second thought, even though most of my tenders are unsprung, I add weight to them, since most are supplied ungodly light and stringline easily.

Again, just curious.

Greg
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Greg, not really close to the sea -but about 10 miles. I have brass track, but I haven't weighted the tenders. That may do something for the 10-wheeler, but it may be risky on the Rogers as it's adhesion is on the light side even with added weight, and I do have some slight gradients where it tends to spin with three 1:20.3 bogie wagons in tow. I've got a couple of unintended humps which I intend to even out during the winter months, but that won't eradicate the gradients. If I clean the track at the beginning of the day, then the smaller locos will tend to stutter around dusk - I've always assumed this to be because of the dew.

In between running sessions, yes the track in places is close to hedges and plants - yet again, some of the key areas where the locos stutter are also not close to greenery.

I've arrived at the conclusion that the lower voltage of slow running is a contributor - I've wondered whether a loco with skates would help - not necessarily adding skates to the existing locos, but running one intermittently when the others start stuttering, but then I'd have to do a bit of bashing to an already expensive loco to enlarge it to 1:20.3.

Still in thinking mode.
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Interesting, I have no issues with wet rails, and once I have added tender pickups, no running issues at all, perhaps it is my stainless steel rails? I'm just curious because you emphasized very clean rail.

Do you get significant oxidation in a short time? Do you live near the ocean?

On second thought, even though most of my tenders are unsprung, I add weight to them, since most are supplied ungodly light and stringline easily.

Again, just curious.

Greg
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My quest for an easier setup has led me towards Battery. Not near the sea but rails suffer after Rain, I always have to clean then to get decent running. I think it could be pollution from the main arterial Road near me (A1) and general heavy traffic around Town as well. If no rain I get a Month or two where running on DCC Power is just fine. Regarding Dew and Wet Track I find that DCC Sounds get a somewhat confused signal (the wrong sounds can occur on pressing an F key) and that is with with Malletts and big lumpy 2-10-2's.

As for bi Mode I think we have forgotten Clockwork! Not very common but some use it, though again not in the same loco.
 
Holy Mackerel!!!
It was only a simple question not an excuse to start a flame war about which method is the best.
I was only curious about the reasoning.

From a personal point of view I went straight to battery from day dot (I do have 1 live steamer that; at this point in time is just a shelf queen).
I do not use any DCC type chips in my locos and I remove all electrical connections before conversion. (same config for all locos).

If DCC or DC or any other method floats your boat well all power to you.
 
GAP said:
Holy Mackerel!!!
It was only a simple question not an excuse to start a flame war about which method is the best.
I was only curious about the reasoning.

From a personal point of view I went straight to battery from day dot (I do have 1 live steamer that; at this point in time is just a shelf queen).
I do not use any DCC type chips in my locos and I remove all electrical connections before conversion. (same config for all locos).

If DCC or DC or any other method floats your boat well all power to you.
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Yep, but we rather drifted onto my issue of iffy track - which then leans towards battery conversion.

As you point out, we've probably bored poor old Neil Holiday (who asked the original question) to tears. :cry::cry::cry::cry:

But then people soon get used to thread drift here :devil::devil::devil::devil:
 
Rhinochugger said:
Yep, but we rather drifted onto my issue of iffy track - which then leans towards battery conversion.

As you point out, we've probably bored poor old Neil Holiday (who asked the original question) to tears. :cry::cry::cry::cry:

But then people soon get used to thread drift here :devil::devil::devil::devil:
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Not to mention the "my way is the only way" when control questions are asked.
 
GAP said:
Not to mention the "my way is the only way" when control questions are asked.
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Oh dear that is not what is meant by most of us, perhaps the caveat “mihi necesse est optimus” should be added to all posts about use of power for our Locomotives.
 
Snip......
From a personal point of view I went straight to battery from day dot (I do have 1 live steamer that; at this point in time is just a shelf queen).
I do not use any DCC type chips in my locos and I remove all electrical connections before conversion. (same config for all locos).

If DCC or DC or any other method floats your boat well all power to you.[/QUOTE]

.......................

I also went for battery power from the get-go, as I planned to have live steam in due couse, which we have now. (We also now have clockwork as well.) One advantage of no track power is that track detection for signaling is dead easy as you can use the train wheels shorting out the two rails to tell the signal there is a train in section. It does still need reasonably clean track and wheels, and will obviously not work for stuff that has plastic wheels and axles, but I usually change those anyway to lower the centre of gravity of wagons.
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Perhaps ball bearing wheels with power pickups would be good on the tender, then the rolling resistance should stay low, but of course you will still be lifting more weight up the grade.

I wonder if it is dew, or just buildup on the rails...

Greg
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I like the idea of ball bearing wheelsets in the tender, then I checked the prices; over here they're £36 for two axles (£72 for the tender according to my calculator) so battery conversion surprisingly looks a darn sight cheaper o_Oo_Oo_O

Still thinking :emo::emo::emo:
 
Rhinochugger said:
I like the idea of ball bearing wheelsets in the tender, then I checked the prices; over here they're £36 for two axles (£72 for the tender according to my calculator) so battery conversion surprisingly looks a darn sight cheaper o_Oo_Oo_O

Still thinking :emo::emo::emo:
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Because of their cost, and the fact they are very effective.. You only tend to use one axle of these..
 
I went back and re-read the thread.

Observations:

1. the OP who asked if it was possible got answers from "simple use a DPDT switch" (true!) to the technology is not readily available...
2. the poor OP never resurfaced!
3. we are off in battery vs. track.
4. GAP wants to know why you would ever run track power if you have a battery power loco.

(uhh... longer runtimes, ability to run smoke, no charger required, less space taken in loco, easier to wire, cheaper, track power never wears out like batteries do... umm... enough?)

Oh well... was getting interesting about dew affecting power and other stuff.

But I'm afraid it's getting down to track vs battery power again...

(dons flameproof suit and stands out of line of fire) :p

Greg
 
To each his own.
Without wishing to stir the controversy any further I would like to offer my observations gleaned over many years of making and selling battery R/C equipment.
I have from time to time done conversions for operators who wanted both. I am guessing when I gave you a figure, but it would be somewhere around one in 50. 49 of them battery power only.
Some are easy to do, others are not. What I can tell you is that very few, if any, users who have done Track plus Battery conversions, ever use the track part of it again. ....and for the usual reasons.
 
PhilP said:
Because of their cost, and the fact they are very effective.. You only tend to use one axle of these..
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But then you haven't got the spread of lots of little pickups along the length of the loco
 
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