Charging sockets

Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
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These have been the bane of my life when installing battery conversions.

Life was fine when you could buy a chassis mounted socket with just two pins.

Now you only seem to be able to get ones with three pins, and it's never easy to work out which one you don't need -yeah and I know it's self switching but that's just too much for my tiny brain.

So I bought a pre-wired one - with two wires labelled for battery and two wires labelled for motor/controller (common live).

I have wired the simple installation (it's for lighting on my caboose) with a SPST switch for the lights operating through a cut out, and the battery socket is wired straight to the battery but using the same cut-out.

When I plug a charging plug into the socket, the cut out starts clicking - so there's a short.

My problem is where, why, how?

I've tested the socket as far as I can, and the two leads that I'm using are not shorting- it's only when the plug is inserted in the socket.

Any ideas :emo::emo::emo:
 
Not sure of exactly what your configuration is on the wiring harness of the charging part on your set up. I may be way off but instead of using the charging sockets on my G Scale Graphics devices, I either remove the battery or in some cases have a dual male plug so that I can charge the battery without disconnecting it from the circuit board. This is helpful where I have the battery installed in a loco and removing it would entail dismantling the locomotive.

I'm speaking of Li-on batteries. I've purchased male/female, two pin connectors. The male end is fitted to the battery leads and the female end is on the battery charger. In the case I spoke of above, I fit two Male ends to the battery. One end is usually run to a hole in the bottom of the loco so that it is accesible and out of the way.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VIMVIP-10-P...077875?hash=item25c91f8c33:g:iDIAAOSwj85YMbLV
 
Like Dan I'm not sure of your wiring.
If you have a matching plug with flying leads it may help with fault finding. If it still shorts then the problem probably lies with the socket wiring. If not check the polarity of the flying leads and see if it matches your expectations
 
Neil Robinson said:
Like Dan I'm not sure of your wiring.
If you have a matching plug with flying leads it may help with fault finding. If it still shorts then the problem probably lies with the socket wiring. If not check the polarity of the flying leads and see if it matches your expectations
Click to expand...

Well, I have jack plug in the middle of the charging lead which leads to a connector with two different diameter plugs - multi-use; so I can disconnect it and test like that. I think the problem must be the socket wiring, as the short only occurs when a plug is installed - which is doubly annoying having bought a pre-wired one :banghead:

I found some two pin sockets on evilbay, and will replace the troublesome one.

It makes me wonder whether the labels on the pre-wiring were the wrong way round - I'll wait until the new sockets arrive, but could be tempted to swap the black leads on the socket and see what happens.
 
Rhinochugger said:
Well, I have jack plug in the middle of the charging lead which leads to a connector with two different diameter plugs - multi-use; so I can disconnect it and test like that. I think the problem must be the socket wiring, as the short only occurs when a plug is installed - which is doubly annoying having bought a pre-wired one :banghead:

I found some two pin sockets on evilbay, and will replace the troublesome one.

It makes me wonder whether the labels on the pre-wiring were the wrong way round - I'll wait until the new sockets arrive, but could be tempted to swap the black leads on the socket and see what happens.
Click to expand...
If you have a Small Multimeter you could check out the Tabs by using Continuity Check to the Plug/Socket. Also the Wires for a Short. Not many Tests to check the complete thing out. Worth doing this as well to help understand how they work. Just scribble the results of your tests and do it methodically, will help you in the future.

I should say that I used to be a Systems Tester so I get off on such Testing.
JonD
 
Yep, I'm not very good with the meter, so I use the sound setting on it.

The individual wires right up to the casing of the socket, and the pin in the socket, are all OK.

There's no short on the strip board, because I've only used every other strip.

The short only occurs when you insert a plug :confused:
 
Are you sure you have the correct polarity from the charger into the charging socket? - You say there is a connection in the charger lead..

Are we talking a socket with a pin in the centre? - Or are we talking a jack-plug??
 
PhilP said:
Are you sure you have the correct polarity from the charger into the charging socket? - You say there is a connection in the charger lead..

Are we talking a socket with a pin in the centre? - Or are we talking a jack-plug??
Click to expand...
No, not a jack plug - pin in the centre.

Polarity is not an issue as I'm using my Ansmann charger which will switch to the polarity of the battery. But as I say, the lead to the Ansmann has an in-line jack, and even with that disconnected, as soon as I insert the plug into the socket, I get a short.
 
So the protection device you hear 'chattering' is in the loco?

Is the plug going into the socket quite long? - Could in be touching something else when fully seated into the coach?

It does sound like a wiring problem with the charging socket.. almost as if one of the pairs of wires is crossed..
 
PhilP said:
So the protection device you hear 'chattering' is in the loco?

Is the plug going into the socket quite long? - Could in be touching something else when fully seated into the coach?

It does sound like a wiring problem with the charging socket.. almost as if one of the pairs of wires is crossed..
Click to expand...
Yep, it's the cut out that I installed.

The plug(s) is standard length (there are two diameters 'cos I can never remember which one I'm meant to be using) - I use it/them on all my locos (except the first one which has a jack plug socket)

Yes, I think it's the socket - simply because I can't put it down to anything else - a process of elimination Dear Holmes :think::think::think::think:
 
Rhinochugger said:
Yep, it's the cut out that I installed.

The plug(s) is standard length (there are two diameters 'cos I can never remember which one I'm meant to be using) - I use it/them on all my locos (except the first one which has a jack plug socket)

Yes, I think it's the socket - simply because I can't put it down to anything else - a process of elimination Dear Holmes :think::think::think::think:
Click to expand...

Is it possible to get some more detail on the "cut out" device?
 
How is the jack (socket) wired?
Is + positive to to the pin and you have negative on the tab beside it? Middle contact.
Or is the pin (-) negative.
Bear in mind the body of the jack will have a potential from any wore that goes to that centre tab.
 
Oh dear........oh dear..............oh dear - a bit of a Noddy moment as in:

'Oh what a silly thing to do, to clean my lovely teeth with glue'

It was a good few months ago that I did this install, and I was wracking the half a brain cell that I now have left as to what had changed. My normal practice after installing a battery pack is to immediately charge it.

The floor of the caboose is quite thick, and so I was not able to use the retaining nut on the socket; I therefore set the socket in mastic (or glue). When I initially charged it, being a bit impatient, it wobbled, so I put a little screw down beside it, just clipping the cap, to retain it.

I took the screw out, but nothing has changed, I still have the short

So am still mystified - unless the screw has deformed something, thus leaving a permanent short.
 
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PhilP said:
Hear! Hold this! .. BRRRR ZAPP!!!

Right..

So, this IS the Neutral then??

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Click to expand...
Yes, well .....

it ain't cured it :(:(

I've looked at the wiring again, and can't see anything wrong - it's all dead simple.

It's only thee light bulbs in the caboose and a 4.8v battery pack.

Two leads from battery - live goes through the cut-out, and then through a SPST switch.

There is a small strip board to join everything together, and to gather the three pairs of light leads into a connector block (soldered to the board)

Two leads from the board (un-switched but live going through the cut-out) direct from battery to charging socket.

As I mentioned before, the board is unlikely to be the problem as I've only used every other strip - and my soldering ain't that bad.

So the next potential problem is the in-line jack plug and Tamiya socket on the Ansmann charger. Now I used this the day before I struck problems to charge up the power pack for Bertha's sound module, but jack plugs are dodgy things for the sort of battery power we use. Problem is that I still have two battery powered locos with Tamiya sockets. Long term I may have to change them. One will be easier than the other :think::think:
 
A wiring diagram will help here - your description seems full but not easy to follow. I cant visualise where you turn off the load before charging.
 
I have done away with charging sockets all together.

Something to consider for your future wiring, I do not use plugs and sockets I use pins, usually concealed underneath the loco, I just use small brass bolts and nuts with a wire soldered to a brass washer, to identify which pin is which I put a small piece of either red or black heatshrink on the pin the charger is connected via alligator clips.
The pins are switched in via a DPDT Centre Off switch the positions being ON/OFF/Charge the pins are only live in the charge position. Added bonus is I can check the battery voltage at anytime with a meter.

Picture showing the pins and switch (inside Tender) on my Bachmann Shay.

Charging pins on Shay.jpg
 
I'd check for a stray bit of wire touching, possibly in the connection to the switch (I'm sure you can guess why I think that might be the problem....). Then the switch or one of the lights might have an inbuilt short from a manufacturing fault or for some other reason.
 
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Is there enough power left in the batteries that you can get the lights to work? - That proves battery, through cutout, through the socket (no charger), through on/off/charge switch, and the lights..

If that works, it has to be the charge socket (or its switching), wiring fault on your on/off/charge switch, or the charger side of things..
 
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