Coal Fired Edrig

Dear Steve and Tag,

Thank you for your tips. I took my life into my own hands and removed the offending bars on my Annabel grate prior to a run yesterday. What a difference it has made. The fire seems much more settled and predictable. Now, instead of all that mucking about getting the ash out, I just have to clear the bottom of the grate from time to time.

Also, the fire was more inclined to settle around the 40psi mark, with a heavy train, so I wonder if adding a damper will be necessary. Only time will tell.

Finally, have had my eye on the Robert kit and more recently the Ragleth boiler kit..
 
Glad it worked for you Andy. Well done! I don't think you'll need a damper for the Annabel. I certainly don't need one for my Annette. The damper was specifically for the Edrig, which is very free steaming (as Tony observed). I don't know much about the Robert (apart from not really liking its looks) but based on my experience with the Edrig I'd go for the Ragleth. It seems excellent value for money, even with drain cocks and whistle added.
Steve
 
scaleandy said:
Dear Steve and Tag,

Thank you for your tips. I took my life into my own hands and removed the offending bars on my Annabel grate prior to a run yesterday. What a difference it has made. The fire seems much more settled and predictable. Now, instead of all that mucking about getting the ash out, I just have to clear the bottom of the grate from time to time.

Also, the fire was more inclined to settle around the 40psi mark, with a heavy train, so I wonder if adding a damper will be necessary. Only time will tell.

Finally, have had my eye on the Robert kit and more recently the Ragleth boiler kit..
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You won't need a damper with this loco. The Accucraft jobs with outside admission provide more of a pull on the fire and so a 'damper' or window in the firebox door is well worthwhile. You won't need it on the Roundhouse based models in my experience. Well done for having a go and improving the steaming!
 
Am getting a Ragleth Steve...:D I have a review model in my hot little hand as we speak! They run lovely.
 
Rhos Helyg Loco Works said:
tagorton said:
Suspect Tony Wilmore will agree with me on this point.
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Sorry for the delayed response, but yes Tag, I would agree with you.

I have a factory-fresh Annette coming here soon for lining ... and I cannot wait to have a close look at it.
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That will be interesting certainly...
 
Greetings, especially to Tag Gorton and Steve Jackson. Your recommendations about revising the grate on my Sabre Steam Annette were finally taken seriously, just before our latest steamup. Both of you had recommended that the cross members to the grate be removed and that if I did so, I would be rewarded.

Well, I removed the cross members and rewarded I was, over and over and over during the easiest and longest run I've had with my Annette. Gone was the need to run fast to ensure enough draft to keep a strong fire, and when I ran too far without adding some coal, all it took was a piece of charcoal and some more coal to resurect the fire.

The run was at Durand, Michigan during inclement weather. Not only was it cold, wind gusts regularly reached 30 MPH. Regardless, my run lasted almost 90 minutes and was terminated only for fear of exhausting oil in the lubricator. During the run, I added almost a litre of water and nearly 1 1/2 cups of coal.

During the run, I had to stop Annette to prove to 6 or 7 spectators that she was in fact running on coal.

I used a Dremel cut-off wheel to remove most of the cross members. Now, firing up Annette is almost as easy as firing up an alcohol burner. In addition, the revised grate is almost self cleaning.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for the sound advice.

Regards,

Will Lindley
 
Guys.... Superlatives simply fail me... wonderfull stuff.....
Poses the question: when will these be available as a Baldwing steam tram motor?????? Strewth I'd even give you 20 camels AND my wife for one of those.....
 
thumper said:
Greetings, especially to Tag Gorton and Steve Jackson. Your recommendations about revising the grate on my Sabre Steam Annette were finally taken seriously, just before our latest steamup. Both of you had recommended that the cross members to the grate be removed and that if I did so, I would be rewarded.

Well, I removed the cross members and rewarded I was, over and over and over during the easiest and longest run I've had with my Annette. Gone was the need to run fast to ensure enough draft to keep a strong fire, and when I ran too far without adding some coal, all it took was a piece of charcoal and some more coal to resurect the fire.

The run was at Durand, Michigan during inclement weather. Not only was it cold, wind gusts regularly reached 30 MPH. Regardless, my run lasted almost 90 minutes and was terminated only for fear of exhausting oil in the lubricator. During the run, I added almost a litre of water and nearly 1 1/2 cups of coal.

During the run, I had to stop Annette to prove to 6 or 7 spectators that she was in fact running on coal.

I used a Dremel cut-off wheel to remove most of the cross members. Now, firing up Annette is almost as easy as firing up an alcohol burner. In addition, the revised grate is almost self cleaning.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for the sound advice.

Regards,

Will Lindley
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Very pleased indeed to hear this Will. I do hope that this supplier eventually provides a retro-fittable proper 'coal' grate with bars ? which would improve it even more. Unfortunately we cannot ask David Cooper why he 're-invented the wheel' and fitted a woodburner grate to these little engines, but it needs modifying as a matter of urgency. The problem is of course, that most owners will have no previous experience of coal firing and so they tend to blame themselves or just decide that coal is just 'too fiddly' and then sell their loco on. A change of grate will make all the difference in the world and perhaps it will be worthwhile passing your experience here on to the manufacturer to encourage change. I spoke to them at the 16mm Nat Garden Railway Show, but don't think this was enough to get them to alter their design.

Because of this I am currently very circumspect about these locomotives. I would like to see this small business do well but, after all, this is a major investment by committed modellers and the acquisition of a model that does not work well could very much sour the enjoyment of one's hobby. My own direct experience leads me to suggest that locomotives by John Shawe and DJB Engineering will provide for an enjoyable and relaxing coal-firing experience. The opinion of those I trust and observation of the locomotives in action tells me that ELR will also provide an excellent and well-designed coal fired locomotive. Riverdale are as yet an unknown quantity ? the locomotives look very well-made and I did see one running well at the AGM, but for me, the lack of onboard water would remove it from my 'personal' list of prospective purchases. I believe these would suit many however and I did like the nice empty cabs!

I have just looked at the conversions of standard models here. The likes of John Britain or John Campbell can also provide coal fired locomotives of particular prototypes and these models are superb ? but priced accordingly. Without doubt the best value for money on the market today are the Accucraft conversions by DJB Engineering ? not only in terms of capital cost but because of the availability of resonator whistles and working draincocks, and also because they are far easier to clean thoroughly below the running plate. Degreasing, pressure washing and re-oiling after every run will make a HUGE difference to the working life of the locomotive running gear ? and because Accucraft locos have nothing to go rusty, one can wash off, drip-dry and re-oil very quickly. This means that it will get done after every run! My three year old 'Edrig' coalie currently gets used more than any other locomotive and the rods not only look new but there is no discernable wear at all.
 
Good morning Tag.

Regarding your comment about Accucraft using no parts which will rust, wouldn't it be time to ask Roundhouse improve their already good locomotives by replacing all parts which will rust with parts that won't?

Of course, an improvement in the grate is something Rob Cooper can and should do regardless, but they don't manufacture the chassis, Roundhouse does.

When I clean my Annette after a run, it is generally done in a laundry tub with hot soapy water [topside and underneath]. I then rinse it down with hot water and then dry it. Drip drying is not an option. Finally when everything is dry, the chassis gets lubricated and wiped down with an oily rag. So far no rust has appeared.

I agree most heartedly that a model which gets exposed to water in the ordinary course should have no parts that can rust.

Regards,

Will
 
thumper said:
Good morning Tag.

Regarding your comment about Accucraft using no parts which will rust, wouldn't it be time to ask Roundhouse improve their already good locomotives by replacing all parts which will rust with parts that won't?

Of course, an improvement in the grate is something Rob Cooper can and should do regardless, but they don't manufacture the chassis, Roundhouse does.

When I clean my Annette after a run, it is generally done in a laundry tub with hot soapy water [topside and underneath]. I then rinse it down with hot water and then dry it. Drip drying is not an option. Finally when everything is dry, the chassis gets lubricated and wiped down with an oily rag. So far no rust has appeared.

I agree most heartedly that a model which gets exposed to water in the ordinary course should have no parts that can rust.

Regards,

Will
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Indeed they do. My comments were about the fact that Accucraft have nothing to rust. A little bird tells me that this may change on Roundhouse as well. V glad to hear that you are punctilious about cleaning. How do you dry your loco after cleaning (I have a Roundhouse based coal fired loco as well you see)?
 
Drying locomotives.

Tag, in response to your question about drying locos, once rinsed with hot water, and dried with a rag, I pull out an old hair dryer that my wife keeps near the laundry tub. I make sure I rotate the wheels a couple times too. I have no problem lubricating everything that moves as there is no water left to hog any connections [re: water and oil don't mix]. The whole process takes only 10 to 15 minutes.

My oldest loco, a 10-15 year old Roundhouse Sammie has received this bath after every steamup and still looks like new.

Regards,

Will
 
thumper said:
Drying locomotives.

Tag, in response to your question about drying locos, once rinsed with hot water, and dried with a rag, I pull out an old hair dryer that my wife keeps near the laundry tub. I make sure I rotate the wheels a couple times too. I have no problem lubricating everything that moves as there is no water left to hog any connections [re: water and oil don't mix]. The whole process takes only 10 to 15 minutes.

My oldest loco, a 10-15 year old Roundhouse Sammie has received this bath after every steamup and still looks like new.

Regards,

Will
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A hair drier!! I did wonder when you posted Will ? thanks very much for that. I can see how this would work in terms of protecting from rust. I will now get a hair drier for use on my Roundhouse coal-fired loco. I will probably stick with spray degreaser and pressure wash myself, but I think both systems are just as good. The most important thing with coal is getting rid of every speck of dirt, and then running each time in new oil. One can get away with minimal cleaning on gas but certainly not on coal ? excellent!
 
Dannysfod said:
I'm going to throw the peverbial spanner in the works by saying a good friend of mine, who likes matt black dirty engines doesnt clean his at all! That's right, zilch! He does the same with his 5" gauge stannier locos too. Not caused him any problems.
With my 5" gauge loco, I routinely clean the valve gear but not after every run mind, not done it in a few months mind. I'm just laid back I suppose!

Regards

Dan.
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His engine ? his rules. Our little coal-fired beasts actually boil down to a coal fired boiler on a standard Roundhouse or Accucraft chassis with running gear built to a price and designed for a low pressure 40psi boiler. No bushing at all on a Roundhouse loco and just fairly minimal bushing on the Accucraft big end. Oil on one of these little beasts will, in fairly short order, turn into a fairly efficient grinding paste with the addition of coal-dust, ash and garden dirt. The running gear is not designed for 60psi coal firing and so thorough cleaning and fresh oil will pay dividends in longevity ? but it is a matter of choice not an instruction. As a matter of interest which small coal fired loco does your friend have and how many hours has he ran it?
 
Dannysfod said:
Hi Tag,
It's an interesting point about the pressure of the boiler.
My friend has a Jhn Shawe Jack, not sure how many hours it has ran but it has done a lot! I kmow he is on his third boiler for the engine it has been used that much! I'll have to email him and ask.
I'm building a coal fired lady Anne and will be taking good care of it like you recommend as a little each time pays off long term!

Cheers

Dan
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By the left Dan ? what on earth does he do with his boilers????
 
Dannysfod said:
Haha, just uses them! :) I'll have to ask him what the issue was with the boilers.

Just emailed him, he has run for over 1000 hours- literally.
He just runs his engines and enjoys them.
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1000 hours on a Shawe Jack with no cleaning and no wear on unbushed Roundhouse running gear eh! I will leave us all to think about that Danny ? and I am glad that you have decided that this isn't the way forward for you. :-). There is no reason for the boiler to be knacked ? as long as tubes, funnel, smokebox and firebox are properly and regularly cleaned.
 
Dear Tag,

With regards to the various discussions about Sabre Steam grates and modifications thereof, I would like to know why my Annabel doesn't burn anthracite down to fine power, but instead leaves small chunks in amongst the ash. these chunks range from 2-3mm in size.

I do pull quite heavy loads to keep the fire burning, perhaps I need to reduce my loads and add blower draft to keep the fire burning happily. I tend to avoid the blower unless I'm stationary. Given your experience with coal fired locos you may be able to enlighten me?

thank you in advance for your time, regards Andy.
 
Greetings Andy:
If you want to improve the breathing of your Annabel, you can do what I did to improve my ability to maintain a fire in my Annette. Simply cut the cross members off the grate. Leave those at the very end where the grate is bent towards the ash pan. Although round rods would be still better, the grate without the cross members is almost self cleaning. The fire burns stronger, is easy to resurect if you run too long before adding coal and the loco doesn't have to be run as fast to maintain a strong fire. I applied suggestions of Tag Gorton and Steve Jackson and wish I had done it when they were first made. It is a far more docile locomotive with the cross members deleted. I used a Dremel Motor Tool with cut-off wheels.

Happy steaming,

Will
 
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