Converting a Big Hauler from D cells to R/C Car Battery

James Stuart

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Hello again, newbie here!

When subbing D cells for a R/C car battery, the specs say to use a 7.2 volt, 1200 or 1400ma battery pack. I know that the D cells provide 9 volts and am willing to accept that it will run slower (not out to break any speed records!) Are those specs gospel or is there some leeway as to a higher rated "ma", say 2000 or 3000? I don't want to blow up the unit but am looking at options. Thanks again!
 

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Higher mA will give you a longer running time....
 
The voltage will give you your top speed. - If you use a lower voltage, it is like not turning your controller all the way to maximum.

The '1400mA' is actually the capacity of the battery, and should really be 1400mAh. - milliamp hours..
The bigger the value, the bigger the 'bucket' of power you have.
This will give you an idea of the run-time, of your loco..

So with your 7.2V 2000mAh battery, will run your loco slower, but for a longer amount of time.

PhilP
 
The voltage will give you your top speed. - If you use a lower voltage, it is like not turning your controller all the way to maximum.

The '1400mA' is actually the capacity of the battery, and should really be 1400mAh. - milliamp hours..
The bigger the value, the bigger the 'bucket' of power you have.
This will give you an idea of the run-time, of your loco..

So with your 7.2V 2000mAh battery, will run your loco slower, but for a longer amount of time.

PhilP
Thanks for the information. It's a big help!
 
Back in the day GRS sold an 8v replacement RC car type battery to fit inside the body as per the 7.2. Running a little faster but appeared to last quite well.
 
please stick to the same chemestry, dont mix li ion, lipo or nimh cells in different chargers or users.
Yep, important safety point, make sure you use a suitable charger for the battery. Lithium batteries need special balance chargers that prevent the overload of any particular cell, while ni-cad or ni-mh offer smaller capacities but are more tolerant of abuse.

You can blow a motor by connecting a source with too much potential current, but D cells probably have lower internal resistance and more available current than a typical r/c car pack.

One other consideration, Lithium batteries must never be fully discharged, and should never be stored either fully charged or discharged. A maintenance charge of about 50% will extend their lifespan significantly. Ni-cad and ni-mh batteries however benefit from a deeper discharge to avoid memory effect.
 
I was going to comment, but see I need to wait 2 months :D
To be fair, if its general safety advice, I'm a bit more relaxed about digging up earlier posts.

Anyway, what's a couple of months in the context of garden railways? On another forum with posts going back to 2007, zombie posts occasionally get dragged up on some very obscure topics!!
 
Just having fun... more related on how long the thread languished before

february, then 2 months to april, then 2 months to June.

But in the spirit of helpfulness... the old nicads had lower internal resistance than alkaline primary batteries, and also so does nickle metal hydride.

(you can sort of figure out why rechargeables have a lower internal resistance, because they must accept a charge)

but really the voltage applied has more to do with harming a motor than the current, since the higher voltage will draw more current. Higher MAH on the battery pack will not by itself be more dangerous.... peak discharge current is more dependent on chemistry than just the simple MAH of the pack.

Like you said, general safety advice... put a fuse in the circuit to the motor if worried...


Greg
 
In general, it is pretty simple, never exceed the max or min voltage.
For li ion for instance max charge is 4.2v min is 2.8v advised is max 4.0v and min 3.0v for longer lifespan
Your charger should be capable of li ion, a normal cc cv charger wil do it for days before it is full, keep a eye on the max c rate, 1c is in general very safe.

NiMh has a v span of 0.9 to 1.35v but needs to charge beyond the delta voltage aka 1.35 to 1.45 some even up to 1.6.
I have some in my Powerwall, my settings are 1.0v to 1.35v, oke just like with li ion i use 80% of the cell capacity.
But the charging curve and the c rate what they can handle is different.

lifepo4 min v is 2.5 up to 2.8(depends on manufactory) to max 3,5v to 3.65v (depends on manufactory)

Nicad is similar to nimh, but nicads i dont have.

I have a total of 178kwh in my Powerwall.... combined chemistries (all with their own bmsés!).....BUT
The li ion will give in, due to lifespan and not cycle life(with me) within 5 years, i already took out a 20kwh of storage, was getting old aka the storage capacity dropped below 60% soh, not good for a Powerwall, but still good for a hobby locomotive or remote or whatever low consumption device.
The next 80kwh i think in this or next year will be removed. ( my total on li ion is/was 100kwh storage)
With use they die fast, even if not cycled!
Without use i think the cycle life and own life will greatly be approved if used in our hobby(propperly charge and discharge)
Cycle life can be up to 2500 cycles from new cells if 70% soc is maintained...

Nimh or nicads, great chemistry, will not die, if handled good. but the storage capacity is per volume very low.
Very very low, but every (zinc)bromine cell is lower, a nickel/iron cell is higher than bromine, but they life forever.
But need way different charging charaistics....way different chargers than li ion.

I wish i had more nimh cells in my powerwal (15kwh) or even nicads(0kwh)
They can be used in our hobby, it is a very save and old chemstry, very safe, it will boil water off when mistread badly...and become usless.

Lifepo4(60kwh),
The only lithium chemistry i thrust inside my house, will not catch fire when mistreated, just a lot of hissing and smoke.
But before that happens the safety guard(bms) will terminate the in and out going currant....or c or what ever....li ion will go a wall
Li ion when it is time it is time when mistreated...it will catch fire if not handle properly.
I use li ion with confident in my house, but the self-life is too short, and the safety thingies are too much, aldo in hobby things they are perfect, but keep your boundaries.
So li ion is out except for hobby projects.


My powerwall was total:
100kwh+ li ion (tested on 7 points)
60kwh+ lifepo4
15kwh+ nimh
18kwh nmc(nickel magnese cobalt)


You can charge all of them with a cc cv charger....all chemistries...but keep the max v.
Any dc dc converter can do the trick!
And cut off at the min v that is required to keep the cell happy!
Oke with a 1a dc dc converter charging a 280Ah cell x 16.....could take a couple of weeks...:cool:
When they are full the a will fall back!


With best regards Igor
 
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Like you said, general safety advice... put a fuse in the circuit to the motor if worried...
and/or a 1s,2s or even a 3s bms for 50 cents...But i think a fuse is more needed at the giver side than the user side, a motor can accept some higher voltage, but will only ask for what A he wants. or there must be a short somewhere.
This will do, incl solder a fuse on you li ion or what other chem you have(adjust the bms to the chem!), rated a max what the usage is...you will be safe if the cells are good.

With best regards Igor
 
but really the voltage applied has more to do with harming a motor than the current
Correct all the way...dont put 12v on a 3v dc motor:cool::cool::cool:but its fun(dont try without a v regulator on your loco's, please)
 
I know what you were getting at Igor...

So for a "given" load... higher voltage should use less amps... I believe that's what you were thinking...

But this discussion started about the dangers to a motor, and possibly burning it up...

So, given either a defective motor, or one overloaded, then you have issues with more current at higher voltages... easier to damage.

A while back Aristo Craft had defective motors in their GP40's (bad motor wiring insulation)

As the motors were put under load, the insulation melted, and thus lowered the resistance resistance, and thus drew more current and eventually smoked and destroyed themselves....

This was the current draw of ONE motor/truck on rollers (no load)
AristoRockIslandGP40frontMotorBlockSMOKESatMaxPowerAppliedAt10vPk75usAt8KhzMeas2.4ampAver_P9170007.jpg
 
So for a "given" load... higher voltage should use less amps... I believe that's what you were thinking...
yes.
The motor is going faster, so will need more amps to keep it at the new speed
to pull more weight, but not at idle or at speed, most have a v limit(er) or a limit in input due to battery.
But at max v it should pull more a if more kilo/pound where added, but not when it was already driving? cous the mass is already moving, so the amps must get lower at the same v? when driving at the same speed?


2.5a....WOW that is short circuit and not normal, even with your 50 cars i could be normal?, but without load....?
Even my ali expres motors when dragging 15 kilo(30 pounds?) (20 cars) are not that demanding, 0.7a at 4.5v

With best regards Igor
 
But this discussion started about the dangers to a motor, and possibly burning it up...


I can connect a 3v dc motor to a lifepo4 cell off 280ah(2.5v to 3.6v max), but nothing will damage the motor.
It will get what it wants to have. no fuse can limit this.
It will not burn.

never put higher v on a dc motor than it was rated for, the A is what it wants to get its function done.
If the load is to heavy the motor can and will burn.
if applied to high v the motor will burn.
If the wiring on the motor is not done properly (to less wires) it can burn.
If insulation on the wire is not thick enough it can burn.
Did i miss something?

With best regards Igor
 
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