Converting Bachmann fleet to Battery & RC

maxi-model said:
P.S. Numpty question alert - Why is it always a recommendation/requirement to sever any connection to a loco's track pick ups ? Even those on Bachmann locos which are switchable between battery power and track power, on these type of conversions.
Click to expand...
I did a battery conversion on my Otto using a battery wagon, loco connections etc all made and test run on a rolling road, and all was fine. Out on my track the loco spluttered for a foot or so and stopped, two or three attempts and a rethink. On my plastic track and all was well, and then it dawned, although the track power was off, the TE was still actually connected, and to loco had not had the picks disconnected. I disconnected the TE, and all worked well, so the battery was feeding the TE. Loco track connections isolated and all runs well.
 
JimmyB said:
I did a battery conversion on my Otto using a battery wagon, loco connections etc all made and test run on a rolling road, and all was fine. Out on my track the loco spluttered for a foot or so and stopped, two or three attempts and a rethink. On my plastic track and all was well, and then it dawned, although the track power was off, the TE was still actually connected, and to loco had not had the picks disconnected. I disconnected the TE, and all worked well, so the battery was feeding the TE. Loco track connections isolated and all runs well.
Click to expand...
Yep, that all makes logical sense and is what I have done, but I'm with Max theoretically when the later Fn3 Bachmann offerings have a switchable mode, that could be simply switched to achieve the same.

I say theoretically, as I don't see myself converting my C-19 :smoke:
 
The switch is fine IF you 'just' feed the output of the RC ESC into one side of it.. - That means you do have either track OR battery, but none of the advantages of power being constantly available within the loco. Eg. Sound running, and lights, when stationary.

If you want to start switching ancillaries as well, then that is a different kettle of fish!

PhilP.
 
Rhinochugger said:
Yep, that all makes logical sense and is what I have done, but I'm with Max theoretically when the later Fn3 Bachmann offerings have a switchable mode, that could be simply switched to achieve the same.

I say theoretically, as I don't see myself converting my C-19 :smoke:
Click to expand...
So in my reply I say I disconnected the track, this is done by a DPDT COF switch, so I can go back to track power, but I have not used it since the conversion.
 
Never, I repeat, never ever trust either Bachmann or AristoCraft track battery switches to actually isolate the track from the on board electronics.
 
Your need for a level of standardization is sound Max. That is why I started with Fosworks and have mostly kept with it but do have a couple of Deltang conversions, these had LiPo Batteries to start with but have now had NiMh replacements. There are views in here about LiPo’s and I do not think this is the place to get that frank and meaningful conversations going again. So I suggest read the varying remarks on the net, look at some of the YouTube vids and make your own mind up.

As for the Fosworks installations, with their wiring loom most of the problems have been resolved though you would need to wire up the DPDTCO if you decide to retain Battery Track power options.

Sound For you may not be so easy to standardise, there are of course My Loco Sound Boards, then there is DCC. I think if you had a Fosworks selecta FW Tx you could run both via this and even get to more sounds on the MLS via another small board. Speak to Fosworks about this.

As for Deltang I have with difficulty managed to get 4 sounds ( much help from Andy at Micron) on the 2 MLS boards on the Deltang fitted locs, but that is it. The programming is not the most straightforwards and though I have had lots of help from Rik on here in particular I still find it a chore.

With Fosworks it is a simple connect the wires to the screw Terminals on the MLS so you can mix and match if you want to change the 3 if that is where you deide to stay.

Oh Deltang do not as yet do DCC compatibility either.
 
dunnyrail said:
As for Deltang I have with difficulty managed to get 4 sounds ( much help from Andy at Micron) on the 2 MLS boards on the Deltang fitted locs, but that is it. The programming is not the most straightforwards and though I have had lots of help from Rik on here in particular I still find it a chore.
Click to expand...
I had the four recommended (Deltang) pads in the MLS manual wired, and have had no problems with four sounds, the rest being automated, no programming.
 
Taking my next recommended baby step, if sound is a given, I would suggest listening to sound systems to see what quality level is good for you.

I like all the nuances and programmability to have my locos sound unique, and prototypical. In addition, I often consist locomotives, so having 2 locos sound identical is something I don't want, I want some randomness.

I also was sold when the first actual load-controlled sound systems came out, pretty sure it was the SoundTraxx Tsunami who actually measured BEMF and translated that to changes in sound... and I don't just want a volume change, but the actual sounds that change as the load changes in the prototype.

You can guess that locked me into higher end DCC decoders.

Just outlining the decision making process I went though. Listen to youtube videos, and most manufacturers have a way to at least hear part of the sound system online.

Again, making a decision by elimination of things you DON'T want.

Greg
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Taking my next recommended baby step, if sound is a given, I would suggest listening to sound systems to see what quality level is good for you.

I like all the nuances and programmability to have my locos sound unique, and prototypical. In addition, I often consist locomotives, so having 2 locos sound identical is something I don't want, I want some randomness.

I also was sold when the first actual load-controlled sound systems came out, pretty sure it was the SoundTraxx Tsunami who actually measured BEMF and translated that to changes in sound... and I don't just want a volume change, but the actual sounds that change as the load changes in the prototype.

You can guess that locked me into higher end DCC decoders.

Just outlining the decision making process I went though. Listen to youtube videos, and most manufacturers have a way to at least hear part of the sound system online.

Again, making a decision by elimination of things you DON'T want.

Greg
Click to expand...

Here I am in a bit in a quandary Greg and will have to probably make some compromises - I already own locos with sound fitted, a generic synthesized steam, MyLocoSound card, loco specific cards, 3 x K-27 & Climax Sierra Soundtraxx and a loco specific DCC, Digitrains chip, fitted to my OO9 4-6-0 WD Baldwin (OO/1:76 scale/9 mm/N gauge, for the uninitiated)

I would like to retain the old Sierra cards, I am now familiar with their installation and operation (and yes there are issues with PWM, but not insurmountable as I have found) and their sound is good enough for me. A decent speaker seems to be the key here, as it is for all card types, and its cost, as a component, is not a undue stress on the wallet. I have already speced a MyLocoSound "railbus" generic for the Goose I and their "light industrial" for a couple of 16 mm scale UK NG based dismals I am working on. I know that synthesized sounds can grate but for these, and an electric tram, they will suffice. I was quoted for a DCC card for the dismals, specifically the sound of a Gardner bus engine they are both equipped with in real life, but there was a £100 premium.......for each. And here is the rub when you want accurate top quality sound with, literally, all the flashing light and whistles it costs. You can tune the sound on the MyLocoSound cards, so you can individualize them, but I have never got a satisfactory synthesized whistle sound out of one.

I was totally blown away by the Digitrains DCC sound for a tiny OO9 Baldwin loco, its a Zimo 18 pin with a tiny cube speaker in the bunker. I could not believe all the functions it offers and sound quality. Loco £130, sound £130. It was simple to fit and I have just about found my way around my PIKO DCC handset to operate it, but nothing else. And that's the problem for me, the fear factor. It's a lot of money if you screw it up over a load of locos and/or not use to their full capability. I may well pay the extra for DCC on some specific locos that stand out, like the Shay, Heisler and Mallet. That's based on hearing what could be done with the tiny Baldwin. Its fun but a lot of buttons to press and remember. It will also have an impact on what TX's are bought and which locos share with which. The strands I have operating on my line - 16 mm UK/Colonial (all either live steam or battery from the get go), Fn3 D&RGW, Fn3 Logging, some live steam but that's where the conversions are happening. You won't find locos and stock from one strand mixing with another in an operating session (nothing to do with Flu-19) so that's a start point for sharing out the TX's. I'm a bit persnickety that way. Max


As an aside I was at my local NG line, the Leighton Buzzard railway, aka Buzzrail, where they have a WD 4-6-0 Baldwin..........the actual Baldwin use for the sound recordings for the chip. How do I know ? I got to talking to the guy who was firing the loco when they did the recordings while I was there. As you do.. Kind of gives you a special connection with the finished article.
 
To go back to basics, I have heard for years that Bachmann locos like 14-18 volts. Mine ran happily on 14.4v.
It has not been mentioned that NiMH batteries lose charge over time, and will die if left discharged. I religiously recharge all mine every 6 months, whether they've been used or not. LiIon/LiPo batteries retain their charge for much longer - i often leave them for 12 months without noticing any problems when I turn them on. In addition they are smaller and lighter, which helps if you are not using them as traction weight in the locomotive.
 
maxi-model said:
OK, I have pretty much made up my mind to bite the bullet and convert my fleet of Bachmann locos to Battery & RC. In all probability I will keep it to DC for simplicity's sake. I could be persuaded otherwise if there is not too much of a cost/complexity impact and there are sufficient benefits. On the basis of "the devil you know" and that I am happy with their products and service I will probably standardize on Fosworks products.

My initial question is what voltage to settle on for the battery packs ? I can list the locos if there are variations between the models. They are all 1:20.3 scale, varying from K-27 down to Heisler in size terms. I have the factory wiring schematics to assist in working out where to tap in the power and most are configured to allow switching out the track pick ups. Max

There are a couple of "oddballs" a Goose I", an Occre tram running on a USAT block and an Accucraft Porter. I'll deal with them at a later stage
Click to expand...
Hello Maxi-model
Some months ago I too decided to bite the bullet and convert my LGB Fleet over to Battery/RC. I was helpfully steered to Fosworks and have stuck with them. They are most helpful and pout up with a newbie with remarkable patience! Their service is superb, and often I receive goods I ask for the following day (that gets scuppered sometimes by our countryfied post). Steve Foster seems very on top of this whole matter, and each Loco conversion I have undertaken with his advice has worked marvellously!

It has changed the manner of operating my extensive outdoor layout, and the pleasure of strolling along next to a train working its way round is very theraputic. No more rushing back to central control to change a point -- I do it by hand as the train approaches!

I am in no way connected to Fosworks other than as a very satisfied Customer,

Wish you joy in your venture!
Old Fella
 
Sorry, I am getting mixed up with my own threads. I posted this on a thread where I have asked for advise on a device to make Sierra cards compatible with a PWM power supply. A solution has been found there.

Moving further with the sound issue, I'm going with Greg's suggestion in having distinct and near prototypical sounds for most of my locos. This has led me to looking at the Phoenix P8 as a "standardised" solution. They have a benefit in being supplied, and fitted if necessary, by a UK based agent who I have used for a number of years for RC installations and maintenance of my live steam locos. Being a short hop up a couple of junctions on the M40 motorway from where I live is another plus point. Phoenix have a sound library that matches the 8 in the roster that are to be converted that way. Those ones are not covered are the 3 Sierras equipped and vehicles that are particularly suited to the MyLocoSound cards, e.g. diesel and electric. Yes, the Phoenix cards have been around a while but they seem to offer a sufficient level features that are adequate for my needs without pushing me into, and to my mind, potentially complex and costly DCC solutions that are out there. Vitally they are all supported by established UK dealers. But as they say,never say never. Max
 
Fred2179G said:
To go back to basics, I have heard for years that Bachmann locos like 14-18 volts. Mine ran happily on 14.4v.
It has not been mentioned that NiMH batteries lose charge over time, and will die if left discharged. I religiously recharge all mine every 6 months, whether they've been used or not. LiIon/LiPo batteries retain their charge for much longer - i often leave them for 12 months without noticing any problems when I turn them on. In addition they are smaller and lighter, which helps if you are not using them as traction weight in the locomotive.
Click to expand...
Greg Elmassian said:
Actually, post #16 addresses self discharge in NiMH batteries and gives you the best alternative, the eneloop batteries.

Greg
Click to expand...
Yes, there are other makes of LSD (Low self-discharge) as well as Eneloop now.

The secret when ordering is to look for the LSD description.
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Rhino, I would be interested any links to other LSD NiMH brands, thanks.

Greg
Click to expand...
I've used Strikealite and Vapextech as battery pack suppliers, and haven't looked too closely at the brand, only for the LSD technology.

Strikealite page as an example:

NiMH Low Self Discharge Rechargeable Batteries - ALL | Strikalite

www.strikalite.co.uk

Vapextech page:

Low Self Discharge

We have a superb range of low self discharge batteries that come fully charged and offer a cost efficient way to power your devices.
www.vapextech.co.uk www.vapextech.co.uk

From memory, the Eneloop technology was taken on by another battery manufacturer, but I doubt they could claim any patent at this stage, although the 'instant' logo looks close to the old Eneloop one.
 
It comes down to the old price v performance equation, does it not ? When you are equipping 11 + locos and specifying 12/14:AA packs for each then one has to weigh these things up. But then again you have to balance it against the total unit cost of conversion per loco when you include a number of shared high function handheld TX's & RX, ESC, soundcard, speaker, ancillary wiring and switches for each. The batteries are a reletively minor cost component of that latter total whether you go for bog standard "budget" NiMH or the premium low discharge Eneloop. Food for thought to be digested carefully and slowly. Max
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Actually, post #16 addresses self discharge in NiMH batteries and gives you the best alternative, the eneloop batteries.
Click to expand...
Actually, Greg, post #16 does not address the shelf life / self discharge issue on NiMH batteries. Peter Lucas merely pojnts out that eneloop batteries produce 1.5V instead of 1.2V. Low Self Discharge gets mentioned later in the thread.
 
Fred2179G said:
Actually, Greg, post #16 does not address the shelf life / self discharge issue on NiMH batteries. Peter Lucas merely pojnts out that eneloop batteries produce 1.5V instead of 1.2V. Low Self Discharge gets mentioned later in the thread.
Click to expand...
That's probably because Tony has mentioned these on a good few occasions, and most of us know where the thrust of his comment is going.

The fact is that early NiMh technology did suffer from self-discharge, but only if you left the batteries less than fully charged. The self-discharge kicked in once the battery was partially discharged. I am still using a 12v pack (2 x 6v packs) of NiMh Sub-Cs which laid in store fully charged for about four years in a loco that I had used fairly regularly on my old railroad, and which I resurrected for the railroad at the current house - the loco is still running.

As Greg says, there are probably a good few Eneloop clones by now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top