ESC with feedback control??

This may well be seen as nothing but a futile exercise in flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality, but this is another reason why a system like the Massoth DRC300 will be so very, very useful - IF it ever sees the light of day...... :@

By allowing direct radio control (via a Navigator handset) of a DCC-chipped loco driven by either track OR battery power, the system should enable all the facilities of the DCC decoder to function, including of course the back-EMF.

That is of course assuming it actually goes into production before Hell freezes over....... :@:@:@

Jon.
 
Tony Walsham said:
In the meantime...........:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Yes Tony, I do realise that your (and other) systems ARE fully available now - however the point I was making is that the DRC300, if/when it actually happens, should solve Rik's specific question about the incorporation of back-EMF control with R/C - something that, as you stated earlier, no current R/C ESC seems to do.....

Jon.
 
Zerogee said:
This may well be seen as nothing but a futile exercise in flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality, but this is another reason why a system like the Massoth DRC300 will be so very, very useful - IF it ever sees the light of day...... :@
(snip)
That is of course assuming it actually goes into production before Hell freezes over....... :@:@:@
Click to expand...

Anyone fancy starting a sweepstake on which month & year the DRC300 will be available? I think I'll go for May 2020, just for fun.
 
Yes Jon.
I cannot understand how a respectable business can announce something that many seem to want and then do nothing about it for, what is it, 2 + years with no explanation offered as to why nothing has been done!!
Cost of course could be a limiting factor. But, then I suppose to some, cost is no barrier.

I can only repeat, that as far as I can see from having sold many thousands of battery powered ESC's over the years, I have found no need to adopt back EMF reading.
 
whatlep said:
Zerogee said:
This may well be seen as nothing but a futile exercise in flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality, but this is another reason why a system like the Massoth DRC300 will be so very, very useful - IF it ever sees the light of day...... :@
(snip)
That is of course assuming it actually goes into production before Hell freezes over....... :@:@:@
Click to expand...

Anyone fancy starting a sweepstake on which month & year the DRC300 will be available? I think I'll go for May 2020, just for fun.
Click to expand...
I too am waiting for the DC300, however I'm also waiting for the multi receiver I sent to Massoth for repair at their request over 3 months ago. There's a sweepstake running on the (possible) return of that too!
 
A quick (serious) question: are Massoth still producing all or most of the electronics for M/LGB, or are Marklin having the stuff built elsewhere to Massoth designs?

Jon.
 
ge_rik said:
whatlep said:
Anyone fancy starting a sweepstake on which month & year the DRC300 will be available? I think I'll go for May 2020, just for fun.
Click to expand...

Is this the little beastie - or is this just a pre-production order request?

http://www.gardenrailwaycentres.info/shop/index.php?_a=product&product_id=2532 < Link To http://www.gardenrailwayc...ct&product_id=2532

Rik
Click to expand...
That's the one, a few sites show it as an orderable item. It dates back to a time when everyone believed it might actual appear. Sadly another false alarm.
 
shropshire lad said:
ge_rik said:
Is this the little beastie - or is this just a pre-production order request?

http://www.gardenrailwaycentres.info/shop/index.php?_a=product&product_id=2532 < Link To http://www.gardenrailwayc...ct&product_id=2532

Rik
Click to expand...
That's the one, a few sites show it as an orderable item. It dates back to a time when everyone believed it might actual appear. Sadly another false alarm.
Click to expand...

Pity - does seem like the ideal compromise between DCC and battery r/c for the likes of those like me who want the best of both worlds

I wonder why they're prevaricating. Presumably they ran into some technical issues which they are finding difficult to resolve.

Rik
PS - looking at the blurb it looks tailor made for my railway - 4 locos is my optimum
 
Rik.
More likely the holdup would be what it would cost the consumer.
For someone who doesn't already have a Massoth DCC system R/C handpiece you would need to add up the cost of an R/C handpiece, the DRC300 and a suitable DCC decoder.
 
gregh said:
ge_rik said:
I was very impressed by how slowly I could set the speed and she still climbed the gradient without problem. It looks as if the ESC does somehow respond to the increase in load.
Click to expand...
I will predict they are rock steady and don't change more than a few tenths of a volt with load - ie there is no 'load compensation' or feedback. And some of that change may be the battery volts anyhow. (try measuring that too if you can.)
The hobbyking escs that I use just put out a constant voltage dependent on the throttle setting. So any speed variation is just due to the motor armature resistance (or the battery internal resistance)
Click to expand...

Not sure whether the Mtroniks Viper is similar to the [strike]Tigurny[/strike] Tinurgy but I noticed in the Viper's description that it includes 'motor stall protection'

http://www.mtroniks.net/details1.asp/ProductID/193/sid/63/MicroViper-loco.htm < Link To http://www.mtroniks.net/d...63/MicroViper-loco.htm

Maybe that's why my Mac 5 seems to keep the motor going up the gradient even at the slowest speed - I assume they may share the same chip (??). Of course I may be talking nonsense - as I recently said to the emergency plumber who had to be called out to put right my attempts to get my daughter's shower working "In my case, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!"

Rik
 
Tony Walsham said:
Rik.
More likely the holdup would be what it would cost the consumer.
For someone who doesn't already have a Massoth DCC system R/C handpiece you would need to add up the cost of an R/C handpiece, the DRC300 and a suitable DCC decoder.
Click to expand...
I wonder how they would react if I volunteered to become their field tester??

Rik
 
BTW - figured out the issue with the valve gear (see post #15). Called in to see Stainzmeister on my way back from a trip to Wales and it seems there are at least three different chassis for the U-class. On the earliest one, the bracket is only a millimetre or so above the rail. Because I excised the part of the chassis which supports the upper ends of the bracket it now hangs too low on my model. Looks like I'm going to have to recreate some sort of support for the upper ends of the bracket.

As I said earlier, now I've made one of these, I now know how to do it properly!

Rik
 
Tony Walsham said:
Rik.
More likely the holdup would be what it would cost the consumer.
For someone who doesn't already have a Massoth DCC system R/C handpiece you would need to add up the cost of an R/C handpiece, the DRC300 and a suitable DCC decoder.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the delay is a technical one, I'm thinking they ran into a problem that they haven't yet got over. I don't think the price point is an issue, because it isn't really aimed at someone starting from scratch - it's aimed at those customers who already HAVE a Navigator and a number of chipped locos, and want the option of battery power for a few locos without ditching all the equipment they already have for DCC track powered running. With the DRC300 and a couple of switches, you could have a loco that you can switch between track and battery power at will, and that you can control via your Navigator exactly as you would through the Dimax on regular DCC.
Given the number of folks just on here who are desperate to get their hands on one (or several), I don't think there will be any shortage of buyers...... ;)

Jon.
 
Maybe not a shortage of buyers here at GSC, but I doubt that would offer a big enough market potential for Massoth to gear up for a (Large Scale) mass production, which by its very nature would have to attract a lot of support to make it viable.

The biggest problem attracting any Large Scalers to battery R/C is not generally the cost of the equipment. Rather it is where to put the batteries. I believe that it is the not very good track pick ups of small locos that make battery R/C seem attractive, but because of their very smallness the "where to put the batteries" stumbling block arises.
 
Tony Walsham said:
Maybe not a shortage of buyers here at GSC, but I doubt that would offer a big enough market potential for Massoth to gear up for a (Large Scale) mass production(snip)

The biggest problem attracting any Large Scalers to battery R/C is not generally the cost of the equipment. Rather it is where to put the batteries. I believe that it is the not very good track pick ups of small locos that make battery R/C seem attractive, but because of their very smallness the "where to put the batteries" stumbling block arises.
Click to expand...

Good post Tony. I suspect that Massoth may have decided that the r/c market is too mature now - especially in their primary market of Europe - for them to achieve sufficient sales. A real shame as the idea of having r/c control from one of their handsets is a very nice concept.

The point about small locos is spot on. That makes it noteworthy that Massoth introduced their new mid-size, mid-price power buffer last year with no prior announcement. It fits in even the smallest loco and gets around the track pickup issue very well. Possibly that's their marketing strategy rather than pushing the r/c concept.
 
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