HELP! How to link a Train Eng Handset.

Ok an update.

I still can't get Cyril's handset to link with the TE he has sent me. It may be that his H/S needs a different type of receiver, but I'm happy that his H/S is functional.

I think I may need to try his H/S on an older version of the ART 5471 receiver, so does anyone have this? As mentioned earlier, the H/S is the version with the SPD, DIR & FRQ buttons and not the ON/OFF, ALL STOP & FRQ as per my H/S.

So does anyone have the same version as Cyril's so that I can arrange to test it please?
 
Gizzy said:
Okay, an update on progress.

The scanner we have here at work is from 66MHz upwards, so I couldn't use it for checking the TE H/S.

I've linked my own H/S to Cyril's Rx okay, so I've used an Oscilloscope to check the frequency.

My H/S operates at 29MHz and I now know Cyril's is working but at 27MHz, so the H/S is serviceable.

So now I'm going to read the links that Rob S kindly sent.

Watch this space..........
Click to expand...

29MHz Giz......are you sure :thinking:
Anything between 28Mhz to 29.7MHz is a Ham band and that makes it not legal here.

Which handset have you got?

I'm goner check my two which are the most upto date ones.
I have a fairly accurate frequency meter so will see what they are.
 
Gizzy said:
Ok an update.

I still can't get Cyril's handset to link with the TE he has sent me. It may be that his H/S needs a different type of receiver, but I'm happy that his H/S is functional.

I think I may need to try his H/S on an older version of the ART 5471 receiver, so does anyone have this? As mentioned earlier, the H/S is the version with the SPD, DIR & FRQ buttons and not the ON/OFF, ALL STOP & FRQ as per my H/S.

So does anyone have the same version as Cyril's so that I can arrange to test it please?
Click to expand...

The original receiver only linked on channel 1, I believe.
 
Here are the list of frequencies on my handset, the one with ON/OFF, ALL/STOP, FRQ buttons.
27.045
27.065
27.085
27.105
27.125
27.145
27.165
27.195
27.225
27.255
 
spike said:
Gizzy said:
Okay, an update on progress.

The scanner we have here at work is from 66MHz upwards, so I couldn't use it for checking the TE H/S.

I've linked my own H/S to Cyril's Rx okay, so I've used an Oscilloscope to check the frequency.

My H/S operates at 29MHz and I now know Cyril's is working but at 27MHz, so the H/S is serviceable.

So now I'm going to read the links that Rob S kindly sent.

Watch this space..........
Click to expand...

29MHz Giz......are you sure :thinking:
Anything between 28Mhz to 29.7MHz is a Ham band and that makes it not legal here.

Which handset have you got?

I'm goner check my two which are the most upto date ones.
I have a fairly accurate frequency meter so will see what they are.
Click to expand...
I didn't have my spex on at the time, but I'm sure it was 29MHz on the 'scope?

I used a digital oscilloscope which displays the Volts and Freq reading as well as the waveform.

My H/S is the one with the ON/OFF, ALL STOP and FREQ buttons. I got it to link with Cyril's Receiver okay.

I mentioned in my post, I was surprised to read 29MHz, as, even though I'm not familiar with the wavebands used by radio hobbyists, I was expecting the frequency to be around the 27MHz band.

I may have to take Chris up on his offer of his scanner and compare and confirm the frequencies on another device....
 
STOP PRESS!

Having surmised that Cyril's H/S was transmitting and functioning, I sent it on to Neil for testing with an older version of the RX, the 2 channel version. Neil couldn't get it to work, so he checked the Tx H/S against the one in his own unit, which has an identical pcb.

Being the clever chap he is, his comparision check found a high resistance through connection on the pcb, and he promptly repaired it and hey presto, he had Cyril's H/S working on his own railway.

What a star!

I've asked Neil to check Cyril's H/S workes with the TE Rx used by Main131 and Royale, and if all goes well, Cyril should get a fully functioning repaired H/S back next week!

The power of GSC!

 
Well done guys....:thumbup:
 
The power of Neil is a wonder to behold...much with wisdom is he...
 
For the record here's an image of the suspect area of the PCB.
My guess is that the copper may have been badly etched initially and this was made worse by a bit of flux corrosion after being left out in the rain. The fault didn't manifest itself until sometime after getting damp so I'm pretty sure that there was some other agent at work in addition to the water.
I intend testing the repaired handset with a few other more modern receivers over the next few days, if all works properly I'll then return it North of the Border.

5c1022e1551d4fff9d5cf5d3481089a1.jpg
 
I had similar problems with my Davis weather station.
Three times the transmitter went like that.
In the end I spray it with a tropicalised type of varnish we use at work.
Only one snag, impossible to move for anymore repairs :rolleyes:

It finally gave up the ghost earlier this year with three different tracks blown.
 
I'm sorry chaps, but I am just watching all of this in utter amazement and, may I say, a degree of humbleness. To start with I am not a very clever guy when it comes to lectricity, I can switch on and off a light, but the last time I had to change a fuse, using fuse wire, I got 240V up my whatsit. And today I have to change a light bulb. When this saga comes to an end, and it looks at this stage as though it might be a happy ending, I will post an abbreviated version of the whole thing, and then all of you will see how useful and valuable the Gscalecentral is. Restores one's faith, if you see what I'm getting at.
 
Glengrant said:
I'm sorry chaps, but I am just watching all of this in utter amazement and, may I say, a degree of humbleness. To start with I am not a very clever guy when it comes to lectricity, I can switch on and off a light, but the last time I had to change a fuse, using fuse wire, I got 240V up my whatsit. And today I have to change a light bulb. When this saga comes to an end, and it looks at this stage as though it might be a happy ending, I will post an abbreviated version of the whole thing, and then all of you will see how useful and valuable the Gscalecentral is. Restores one's faith, if you see what I'm getting at.
Click to expand...
No problem Cyril.

In my opinion, that's exactly what the forum is about.

I joined up to be informed, get help if I needed it and help others, as well as making friends, just like I would at my 'conventional' model railway club.

Until recently, I was the only G scale modeller at my MRC, and so GSC (and GSM before) has become my virtual G scale model club, where I've been able to exchange ideas and learn of what others are doing. I've met up with Bigjack, Mole, MMTS, MiAmigo, Zerogee, Beevercreek, ACcamber, Lord Raglan, George, and many other G scale enthusiasts in East Anglia via the forums, as well as others throughout the UK.

Indeed now, I'm in touch with like minded fellows in the US, Europe, Australasia, South America and now even far flung places like Aberdeen in Scotland....
 
Update as a result of testing earlier today.

A bit of research has revealed that the 27Mz Train Engineer was produced in four versions known by their date of introduction as 1994, 1996, 2000 and 2005 with some additional variation within some versions.

My own unit is a 1996 version set supplied in a box labelled 27.045 MHz CH 04. However its handset eventually completely failed and was replaced by an early 2000 version, with a ?rubber duck? antenna, that functions perfectly with my 1996 Rx.

The handset that started this topic appears physically identical to mine and also works in an identical manner as mine with the same Rxs.
After repair and subsequent successful testing with my 1996 Rx I took Cyril?s handset to the home my good friend John (forum member Royale) as he uses two 2000 units and one 2005 version. All three of his Rxs appear externally identical but the handsets all differ from each other and also differ from Cyril?s. All three of John?s handsets have telescopic metallic antennae, the only difference with Cyril?s in one case. Royal has one other 2000 version handset but this only has five frequencies rather than the more common ten, also the two direction buttons work differently as pressing either changes direction. On all the other units tested each button is for a specific direction and, once pressed, repeated pressing of the same button has no effect on direction of travel.
John?s third handset, the 2005 version, is distinguished buy the on/off and all stop buttons in place of the speed and direction ones of the earlier handsets.
Somewhat surprisingly the five frequency 2000 handset would only link and work with one of the three Rxs. In turn that Rx wouldn?t work with any other handset. In contrast his other 2000 handset works with both it?s own and his 2005 Rxs and vice versa.
Cyril?s handset also worked with both of these Rxs but not the one that only worked with the five frequency handset.

I recall seeing other five frequency handsets and being assured that there was no fault and they certainly worked with their respective Rxs.

From the above I concluded that Cyril?s handset now works as intended, however not all handsets are compatible with all Rxs.
I therefore recommend that anyone purchasing a Train Engineer Rx or Tx as an individual item either tests it with their existing unit(s) before purchase or ensures that they will get a full refund if it proves unsuitable even though it may not be defective as such.


Edit, frequency of my unit corrected to 27.045MHz, I originally stated 27.05 Mhz
 
Neil Robinson said:
Update as a result of testing earlier today.

A bit of research has revealed that the 27Mz Train Engineer was produced in four versions known by their date of introduction as 1994, 1996, 2000 and 2005 with some additional variation within some versions.

My own unit is a 1996 version set supplied in a box labelled 27.05 MHz CH 04. However its handset eventually completely failed and was replaced by an early 2000 version, with a ?rubber duck? antenna, that functions perfectly with my 1996 Rx.

The handset that started this topic appears physically identical to mine and also works in an identical manner as mine with the same Rxs.
After repair and subsequent successful testing with my 1996 Rx I took Cyril?s handset to the home my good friend John (forum member Royale) as he uses two 2000 units and one 2005 version. All three of his Rxs appear externally identical but the handsets all differ from each other and also differ from Cyril?s. All three of John?s handsets have telescopic metallic antennae, the only difference with Cyril?s in one case. Royal has one other 2000 version handset but this only has five frequencies rather than the more common ten, also the two direction buttons work differently as pressing either changes direction. On all the other units tested each button is for a specific direction and, once pressed, repeated pressing of the same button has no effect on direction of travel.
John?s third handset, the 2005 version, is distinguished buy the on/off and all stop buttons in place of the speed and direction ones of the earlier handsets.
Somewhat surprisingly the five frequency 2000 handset would only link and work with one of the three Rxs. In turn that Rx wouldn?t work with any other handset. In contrast his other 2000 handset works with both it?s own and his 2005 Rxs and vice versa.
Cyril?s handset also worked with both of these Rxs but not the one that only worked with the five frequency handset.

I recall seeing other five frequency handsets and being assured that there was no fault and they certainly worked with their respective Rxs.

From the above I concluded that Cyril?s handset now works as intended, however not all handsets are compatible with all Rxs.
I therefore recommend that anyone purchasing a Train Engineer Rx or Tx as an individual item either tests it with their existing unit(s) before purchase or ensures that they will get a full refund if it proves unsuitable even though it may not be defective as such.
Click to expand...

Very interesting Neil.
George Schreyer does show that some 2nd and 3rd generation sets don't line up their track codes.
Plus some newer units will only link with old ones on channel one.

I have two of the latest version and of course they have had no problems with each other.
 
spike said:
Very interesting Neil.
George Schreyer does show that some 2nd and 3rd generation sets don't line up their track codes.
Plus some newer units will only link with old ones on channel one.
Click to expand...

Yes, the intriguing problem I encountered is that one third generation (pre 2005 revision) was incompatible with everything else tested including another pre 2005 third generation unit.
 
Neil Robinson said:
Update as a result of testing earlier today.

I therefore recommend that anyone purchasing a Train Engineer Rx or Tx as an individual item either tests it with their existing unit(s) before purchase or ensures that they will get a full refund if it proves unsuitable even though it may not be defective as such.
Click to expand...
That seems to be a very important point certainly not something I would have discovered on my own.
So now it looks like I may end up with a serviceable Tx and a serviceable Rx, but they may not talk to each other. We will as we say in the business of electronics, suck it and see. I will as I have said summarise this whole saga later on, and at least all of us who depend on the TE may well have learned some valuable lessons. (Wife still thinks I should have stuck to Kitmaster. Do you know I built more Pacifics than Stanier did?)
Cyril
 
Earlier today I had the opportunity to do some further investigation as John (Royale) and myself met up at Trevor's (main131's) railway.
Trevor has four Train Engineer sets, all third generation, three of which had pre 2005 five frequency handsets and the fourth is a post 2005 unit with ten frequencies and the on/off button on the handset. In addition John brought along his five frequency handset and I took my third generation pre 2005 ten frequency version.
Initial results were unsurprising, all the five frequency handsets worked with all of the five frequency Rxs and both the ten channel handsets worked with the ten channel Rx. Further testing came up with a surprise as it proved possible to link the ten frequency Txs with the five frequency Rxs and vice versa. However once linked the five frequency Rx wouldn't respond to its original Tx and vice versa.
From this I concluded that the allocation of the handset frequency and/or channel number to its respective frequency and/or channel differs between the five frequency handsets and the ten frequency ones.
In other words if you were, for example to have two sets, one five frequency and the other ten, with one set for frequency one channel one and the other frequency one channel two they will work fine with their Rxs linked to their respective Txs. However if you wished to control both of these Rxs from one Tx you couldn't do so by simply changing channel on a Tx.
It may be that the same channels and frequencies are in use, just that they are given different numbers. However as there are 50 different combinations available on the five frequency units and 100 on the ten I didn't bother investigating further.
 
Well Neil that is as exhaustive testing as any done on the variations of TE. It should be used as a reference for any possible future pairings of Tx with Rx.
Can I suggest that your posting should be put somewhere 'permanent' and easy to find on the forum? I have only got the last generation of Tx and Rx but have had friends turn up with older models as well as being asked about possible combinations before their own purchases from Fleabay This posting would have saved an awful lot of wondering and head scratching!
many thanks to you!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top