HELP! New toy won't work... :(

andyspencer said:
Hi Jon, both models in question are swiss electric loco's... Just double checked my original post and I've written the correct numbers.
So to remove an electric loco body, with out having the loco in front of me but I'm guessing a small number of screws and the body should come off?
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Haha, OK, sorry for the confusion on my part - I don't have any of LGB's Swiss electrics, and when I read the name "Thusis" I just automatically thought of the black 2-6-0 steamer of the same name, sister loco to Heidi!
http://www.dragon-gscale.co.uk/lgb-21272-rhb-steam-locomotive-class-g-34-no-8-thusis-4104-p.asp < Link To http://www.dragon-gscale....no-8-thusis-4104-p.asp

So, please ignore my previous post! ;) But you should find that the bodies will come off your locos quite easily, just examine the undersides for screws - some may be partially hidden under bogies and/details that need to be removed first or at least moved out of the way.

Jon.
 
The screw driver out... Hopefully some pics of the inside. The speaker def isn't an LGB unit, theres a main LGB PCB board, another board which looks like a chip and a small homemade board...

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Any 5 fig LGB numbers on the LGB pcbs Andy?

My best guess for the homemade board is that it is some sort of capacitor to keep the sound on when the DC power is set to off.

One of the LGB cards may be a sound decoder but I need the 5 fig number to be sure....
 
Gizzy, there was a long number on the underside of the factory board (Big board in middle of pic) but can't see any numbers on the small board on the r/h side. The motor wires and speaker cable both go to this small board. It looks like theres to pieces of homemade board - one has 2 small relays and is connected to two green and two purple wires which go into the roof space, the second board has got a capacitor and some form of 3 legged transistor type device - this is wired to the smaller r/h board.
 
From those images my guess is that the loco is DCC chipped and that the analogue mode has been turned off.
I believe that this is sometimes done with DCC sound equipped locos to allow programming the chip without disconnecting any sound buffers. However I can't see anything large enough to be an analogue sound buffer, but there may be a small one for smoother DCC operation.
 
Thanks neil. I've just opened the Thusis... Thats not very standard either, but it does have a speaker. Is it possible that a chipped/sound loco running on analogue would operate as I described in my original post but the sound would not operate, ie sound will only work in DCC mode? Pics to follow of this one.
 
The exploded diagrams for the 25420 'Capito' Ge 4/4 III are here;

http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_pr...5F5D6E67BB005256CBC006C058C/$FILE/25420-1.PDF

Pages 5 & 10 show a pcb which I reckon is the same one, i.e. the main board.

I guess the pcb with the wires to the roof must operate the pantographs, the small LGB board is a sound decoder and the capacitor/transistor board is for keeping power on the sound when used in DC mode.

I reckon this is a DCC loco but modified to work with DC by the addition of the homemade pcbs, one for operating the panto and the other to keep the sound on for a few seconds when the loco is stopped.

If you can get across to Steve the Meerkat, yo may find this loco works on DCC. The only thing then would be to get the loco working on DC, which must be down to the addition of the homemade boards. I would remove these, making a note of where the wires go for future reference and try it on DC.

But it would be nice to have an input from Philbahn or RHBPaul on their thoughts? Worth a pm to these guys....
 
Neil Robinson said:
From those images my guess is that the loco is DCC chipped and that the analogue mode has been turned off.
Click to expand...
Good point Neil. Andy will need someone with a DCC setup to check/reprograming this....
 
andyspencer said:
Thanks neil. I've just opened the Thusis... Thats not very standard either, but it does have a speaker. Is it possible that a chipped/sound loco running on analogue would operate as I described in my original post but the sound would not operate, ie sound will only work in DCC mode? Pics to follow of this one.
Click to expand...
It's possible dependant on the chip and the CV settings. For example a previous owner may have used their DCC unit to reduce the volume or turn off the sound.
I suggest you assume both locos are chipped and have sound and make it a priority to identify the non-LGB boards.
If these are indeed DCC chips then someone with a DCC programming unit should be able to obtain a manufacturer's refence number. This would then mean something to someone with far more DCC experince than me.
 
andyspencer said:
Thusis Pics
Sure it didn't leave the factory like this...
Would it be fair to say that this black wire has broken off the terminal on the motor bogie?
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Curiouser and curiouser. That certainly looks like a three pin block modified to permit DCC operation. This is usually done by adding an external wire and then insulating a motor connection within the block. Whoever did this seems to have added two wires and ignored one of the originals.
Further investigation is called for.
 
Oh my goodness what an awful spaghetti of wiring! Definitely a home grown job. My initial reaction was "gut the lot and put in a Massoth XLS", but seeing the loose black wire I'd certainly resolder that in place first, though a single dead connection on one bogie shouldn't stop the loco working (unless it has shorted something else out.....). I think it's time for the electrical test kit to come out of hiding. :nail:

Can you get a close up shot of the DCC chip to see what - if anything - it has written on it? Offer via PM still stands if you're stuck!
 
I can see worms wiggling past... Still no word from the seller yet either.

Neil, in my last pic, would you say its fair that the black wire has come from the motor block connector? if so the soldering iron can come out before I put the body back on.

Gizzy - the main board in the Capito is screwed in properly whereas all the other boards are hot glued in. Does the smaller R/h board look like LGB or another manufacturers?
 
whatlep said:
Oh my goodness what an awful spaghetti of wiring! Definitely a home grown job. My initial reaction was "gut the lot and put in a Massoth XLS", but seeing the loose black wire I'd certainly resolder that in place first.
Click to expand...
I'm tempted to agree with two reservations.
One, I'm not sure if the Massoth would permit the appropriate pantograph operation without retaining some of the original electronics and two, it would be rather nice to see if it could be made to work with minimal expense, I think Andy is hoping to use it on analogue.
 
Post no.22, 2nd pic down: that is definitely an aftermarket decoder, but I don't recognise the type - from the size, shape and connector strips it looked like a Massoth XL for a moment, but looking more closely at the components on the board I'm now sure it isn't. Any markings on it at all, numbers or letters?
Post no.31, last pic: yep, certainly looks like the wire has broken off, and as the white and brown terminals (Ws and Br markings) are the two main track power feeds it would mean you're getting no power from that bogie. Like Neil, I'm baffled as to why someone would add TWO new wires (yellow and red) to a 3-pin gearbox, when only the new yellow is necessary (the green (Gr) pin, unused in your example, should be the other motor connection).
Looks like a bit of a rat's nest in there, and a real mix of factory and homebrew circuit boards!
Depending on exactly how they were described on ebay, now might be the time to have a word with the seller about them....?

Jon.

Edit - ignore bits of the above that crossed over with the last 3 or so posts!
 
andyspencer said:
It looks like theres to pieces of homemade board - one has 2 small relays and is connected to two green and two purple wires which go into the roof space, the second board has got a capacitor and some form of 3 legged transistor type device - this is wired to the smaller r/h board.
Click to expand...

The board with relays is almost certainly for controlling the directional raising/ lowering of the pantographs. Can't remember if this specific model number had that fitted in the factory, but later versions did. The second board: can't really tell without a good look at the wiring associated with it.
 
andyspencer said:
Gizzy - the main board in the Capito is screwed in properly whereas all the other boards are hot glued in. Does the smaller R/h board look like LGB or another manufacturers?
Click to expand...

Difficult to say from the photo but it may be an old Massoth XLS Sound Decoder....
 
andyspencer said:
Neil, in my last pic, would you say its fair that the black wire has come from the motor block connector? if so the soldering iron can come out before I put the body back on.
Click to expand...
Normally I'd concur with Peter (Whatlep).
That connection goes to the track, and as Whatlep says it shouldn't matter because there's at least one other, so on this occasion, as more work will be needed if you keep it, I'd do nothing for now until more is known about the full situation.
 
Neil Robinson said:
andyspencer said:
Neil, in my last pic, would you say its fair that the black wire has come from the motor block connector? if so the soldering iron can come out before I put the body back on.
Click to expand...
Normally I'd concur with Peter (Whatlep).
That connection goes to the track, and as Whatlep says it shouldn't matter because there's at least one other, so on this occasion, as more work will be needed if you keep it, I'd do nothing for now until more is known about the full situation.
Click to expand...

Fair point Neil. As I posted earlier, this is probably one for getting the voltmeter out and having a good look round rather than just checking the chip. Andy, you may want to compare the wiring you have with that shown for the 21430 in this link: http://www.bigtrainworld.com/joomla...downloads&view=file&Itemid=60&id=1191:21430-1
 
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