Help with Rx - ESC - Sound Mystery
- Thread starter WKDOR
- Start date
Tony Walsham
Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
Luckily for me, I do not need Selecta.
I would rather use Channel # 2 for 2 x function triggers, or another servo for draincocks, blowers etc.
I would rather use Channel # 2 for 2 x function triggers, or another servo for draincocks, blowers etc.
beavercreek
Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
By 'selecta' do you mean the 12 different locos that a TX (like RC Trains RCT-Tx24) can control?
If this is the meaning, it is a great thing to have, as only one TX controller is needed for up to 12 locos, much like multi loco control from other DCC or Radio control systems (Crest Revolution etc).
If that is not the meaning of 'selecta', I apologise and please ignore my ramblings.
If this is the meaning, it is a great thing to have, as only one TX controller is needed for up to 12 locos, much like multi loco control from other DCC or Radio control systems (Crest Revolution etc).
If that is not the meaning of 'selecta', I apologise and please ignore my ramblings.
Tony Walsham
Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
Hello Mike.
That is what I like about this hobby. We can all have different ways of approaching it.
I have never understood the appeal of "Selecta".
Whilst in theory you can run multiple trains at the same time, I have yet to come across a human being that can handle more than two tasks "at the same time" without crashing the locos. By "at the same time" I mean actually control them. Not just set one going and leave it running whilst another loco is being controlled.
I bind all locos to one Tx and just switch on the one I want to run and switch the others OFF.
Frees up another channel for servo or sound triggers, the way my customers want to operate.
If you do want two trains at the same time on Centre OFF control, just bind one to Ch # 1 and the other to Ch # 3. I supply TX's with a pot on Ch # 3 instead of a switch for just that purpose. Each loco can have two sound triggers each on Ch # 2 & Ch # 4.
That is what I like about this hobby. We can all have different ways of approaching it.
I have never understood the appeal of "Selecta".
Whilst in theory you can run multiple trains at the same time, I have yet to come across a human being that can handle more than two tasks "at the same time" without crashing the locos. By "at the same time" I mean actually control them. Not just set one going and leave it running whilst another loco is being controlled.
I bind all locos to one Tx and just switch on the one I want to run and switch the others OFF.
Frees up another channel for servo or sound triggers, the way my customers want to operate.
If you do want two trains at the same time on Centre OFF control, just bind one to Ch # 1 and the other to Ch # 3. I supply TX's with a pot on Ch # 3 instead of a switch for just that purpose. Each loco can have two sound triggers each on Ch # 2 & Ch # 4.
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
You are correct, Mike..
Each to their own, of course..
All bound to one Tx has a potential that if you accidently leave another loco switched 'on', it will also respond when you control the one you are concentrating on running.
I know of a case of a loco on a kitchen work-surface being accidently driven off the end, because all loco's were bound to the one transmitter.
We can all make variants of how 'we' think things should be done...
Then along comes another Customer, who wants something completely different!
ge_rik
British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
Quite so, Tony - we each prefer our own ways of working.
When I run a full operating session I usually have four (sometimes five, if I run a 'special') locos 'in steam' at once. I tend to run them one at a time as my railway is single track. I find Selecta extremely helpful because I can leave a train at one station while running another into another station then, without having to walk back across the garden, I can set first train running towards its destination just by changing the Selecta switch on the Tx. I can do this for all the locos wherever I am in the garden. I find it saves me a fair bit of leg work.
I'll often set the copper ore train running while I'm doing a bit of shunting elsewhere on the line. The ore train moves fairly slowly and so will have happily meandered its way from the copper mine to the exchange sidings in the time it takes for me to marshall a good train.
A few shots from one of my operating sessions
Rik
beavercreek
Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
I like the flexibility to have one controller that can control 12 individual locos. I use DCC for my electric kit, Revolution for some of my battery, and RC Trains deltang system for the other battery and also for the live steam.
I have controlled two different types of live steam shay in a 'lash-up' by using two different numbers on the 'selecta' and this would probably be the limit for my muti-use with live steam. This enables each loco to be set-up and 'de-condensated' individually (using the two choices on the 'selecta' from an easy to hold single handset (in case they are not totally in sync) and then set off to do their thing by just flicking between the two bound 'selecta' numbers corresponding to the locos. And yes I do understand the principle of binding two locos to the same frequency channel on one controller (or 'selecta' number) but with two different live steam locos it is probably easier to be able to trim them individually from one controller than using two different ones.
But I also have some battery locos bound to the same controller and it is really convenient, if you want one loco to behave in a certain manner on one section of your layout, leave it running doing its thingand just to run to another of your stable, and control that one on another section, and even another one on either the same section or on a third etc etc, then the 'selecta' makes it easy to do.
This does away with having multiple controllers, (one loco (or maybe two ) to one controller)... so you end up operating a bit like operating with various DCC addresses, or using Crest 'Revolution' ability to have up to 99 locos stored in one controller.
Yes I do take your point that you ave to know what loco corresponds to what number out of 12 settings on the selecta but that is not too dissimilar to remembering what addresses correspond to which locos with DCC, or the Revo system etc etc.
Tony, I do realise that you are going to prefer the system that you retail and will try to show that it is a better system and that another one may give or offer too many choices than you think is necessary etc (the 'selecta'), but if multiple loco control with DCC (or 'Revolution') was too much trouble and not a good operating environment, then we would not be given the option to have many locos running at the same time with individual control from one handset (with only input of address needed to switch from one loco to another).
In fact the DCC Massoth Navigator gives the option of only two locos being directly controlled at once so DCC addresses have to be juggled if you want to operate more locos or the use of 'consists' or using another Navigator for those with deeper pockets.
The 'juggling' of addresses does mean that there maybe a loco or more not being directly controlled, no different, in fact, to the 'selecta' operation.
It is a least easier, than in the DCC electric world, to switch between your different battery or live steam locos using one 12 position rotary pot.
Tony Walsham
Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
Hello Mike.
I can understand the appeal of Selecta for many users, especially if you are used to DCC or Revo. I know nothing about either.
My customers tend to want the least complicated control system they can get. Selecta adds another level of complexity.
I personally don't see any need for Selecta, especially as it reduces the number of servo or sound trigger options available.
One thing I don't do, is say I don't like Selecta because I don't offer it in what I make.
I have asked my customers in the past and of the six hundred plus Deltang based TX's and Rx's I have sold Worldwide, mainly for live steam, there would have only been a handful who expressed any interest in Selecta. They invariably have been used to DCC track power and/or Revolution or CVP Airwire etc. It hadn't dawned on them that they can isolate locos by simply switching them off when not being used.
With not having Selecta available, one potential problem has been avoided. Accidentally leaving a loco switched on because it was parked and forgotten about, resulting in flat batteries. As far as I know the operators I supply are well versed in switching a loco OFF when it is not being used.
My most popular Tx-5 handpiece has 4 x proportional knob controlled channels plus the Ch # 5 bind button. It is mainly used for lIve steam of course. Operators have a choice of four of the following. Regulator, Reverser, Whistle, Draincocks, Blower, Water Pumps, Kadee uncouplers etc. I would like to offer more but the 7 ch profiles in the Tx2 do not meet my requirements.
To my knowledge I am the only Deltang equipment user/maker who offers that quantity of servo functions in a pocket sized handpiece.
I prefer to concentrate in maximising range from the low powered TX2 modules.
The cases I use are larger than most, but still small enough to store with a Live Steam loco in the loco carry case.
A longer handpiece case means I can mount the Tx2 module well out of the way of the operators hand(s). I have proven in testing that does measurably increase range when compared to a palm sized handpiece.
I can understand the appeal of Selecta for many users, especially if you are used to DCC or Revo. I know nothing about either.
My customers tend to want the least complicated control system they can get. Selecta adds another level of complexity.
I personally don't see any need for Selecta, especially as it reduces the number of servo or sound trigger options available.
One thing I don't do, is say I don't like Selecta because I don't offer it in what I make.
I have asked my customers in the past and of the six hundred plus Deltang based TX's and Rx's I have sold Worldwide, mainly for live steam, there would have only been a handful who expressed any interest in Selecta. They invariably have been used to DCC track power and/or Revolution or CVP Airwire etc. It hadn't dawned on them that they can isolate locos by simply switching them off when not being used.
With not having Selecta available, one potential problem has been avoided. Accidentally leaving a loco switched on because it was parked and forgotten about, resulting in flat batteries. As far as I know the operators I supply are well versed in switching a loco OFF when it is not being used.
My most popular Tx-5 handpiece has 4 x proportional knob controlled channels plus the Ch # 5 bind button. It is mainly used for lIve steam of course. Operators have a choice of four of the following. Regulator, Reverser, Whistle, Draincocks, Blower, Water Pumps, Kadee uncouplers etc. I would like to offer more but the 7 ch profiles in the Tx2 do not meet my requirements.
To my knowledge I am the only Deltang equipment user/maker who offers that quantity of servo functions in a pocket sized handpiece.
I prefer to concentrate in maximising range from the low powered TX2 modules.
The cases I use are larger than most, but still small enough to store with a Live Steam loco in the loco carry case.
A longer handpiece case means I can mount the Tx2 module well out of the way of the operators hand(s). I have proven in testing that does measurably increase range when compared to a palm sized handpiece.
ge_rik
British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
Hi Tony.
Interesting to hear your experiences re demand for Txs. My experiences differ from yours - but of course that may reflect the type of customers which our websites attract(ed).
In the year or so I was making and selling Deltang derived transmitters, 66% of those I sold were Selecta enabled and 33% were non Selecta. Of the non Selecta Txs, just 18% (ie 6% of the total sold) were for the Tx20, which is the Tx with the most controls for accessories such as sound triggers etc.
Most of my sales were to the UK market and so it might well be that the requirements of UK modellers differ from those of the majority of your customers. A lot of the feedback from customers related to how delighted they were to be able to ditch a cupboard full of miscellaneous transmitters in favour of a 'One for All' approach. One memorable piece of feedback from a customer announced that his Selecta enabled transmitter had '.... changed his life'.
So, as with my previous post - I think it's a case of horses for courses.
Rik
Interesting to hear your experiences re demand for Txs. My experiences differ from yours - but of course that may reflect the type of customers which our websites attract(ed).
In the year or so I was making and selling Deltang derived transmitters, 66% of those I sold were Selecta enabled and 33% were non Selecta. Of the non Selecta Txs, just 18% (ie 6% of the total sold) were for the Tx20, which is the Tx with the most controls for accessories such as sound triggers etc.
Most of my sales were to the UK market and so it might well be that the requirements of UK modellers differ from those of the majority of your customers. A lot of the feedback from customers related to how delighted they were to be able to ditch a cupboard full of miscellaneous transmitters in favour of a 'One for All' approach. One memorable piece of feedback from a customer announced that his Selecta enabled transmitter had '.... changed his life'.
So, as with my previous post - I think it's a case of horses for courses.
Rik
Tony Walsham
Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
Hi Rik.
You are absolutely correct. The UK is a completely different market to the USA.
I concentrate on the Live Steam market and sell mostly here in OZ but sell almost the same qty in the USA.
I sell very little in the UK. Probably because the R/C and VIPER ESC's are made in the UK as well as the MRW R/C switches which are gaining in popularity.
I do sell some R/C handpieces via the G1MRA group and quite a few to Live Steamers in Europe.
The USA customers want lots of functions. Both Live Steam and battery R/C.
I even sell them for steam ditchers and shovels.
For battery R/C the biggest demand is for power and volts. I sell just as many MTroniks 24 volt VIPER ESC's as the 15 volt ones in the USA. They mostly go in trail cars which can handle enormous battery packs.
I am now getting requests for 15-20 amp stuff for multiple lash up big USA locos and 100 amp ESC's for ride on equipment although the possibilities of legal action when dealing with the public easily persuaded me to not get really involved.
I have tested some of the really heavy duty SYREN ESC's.
If Lemon R/C ever get around to producing the 10 channel DSM2 TX module they promised last year, I am sure they will be well received for our purposes.
You are absolutely correct. The UK is a completely different market to the USA.
I concentrate on the Live Steam market and sell mostly here in OZ but sell almost the same qty in the USA.
I sell very little in the UK. Probably because the R/C and VIPER ESC's are made in the UK as well as the MRW R/C switches which are gaining in popularity.
I do sell some R/C handpieces via the G1MRA group and quite a few to Live Steamers in Europe.
The USA customers want lots of functions. Both Live Steam and battery R/C.
I even sell them for steam ditchers and shovels.
For battery R/C the biggest demand is for power and volts. I sell just as many MTroniks 24 volt VIPER ESC's as the 15 volt ones in the USA. They mostly go in trail cars which can handle enormous battery packs.
I am now getting requests for 15-20 amp stuff for multiple lash up big USA locos and 100 amp ESC's for ride on equipment although the possibilities of legal action when dealing with the public easily persuaded me to not get really involved.
I have tested some of the really heavy duty SYREN ESC's.
If Lemon R/C ever get around to producing the 10 channel DSM2 TX module they promised last year, I am sure they will be well received for our purposes.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Coming from the DCC world, where basically any throttle can control any loco, I was somewhat surprised at the "one loco, one transmitter" philosophy. I know several installers that use(d) Tony's equipment and they mostly follow that philosophy.
It does keep it simple, no switching locos, etc., but to me it always seemed wasteful and restrictive. With the number of locos I have, having a transmitter for each would be mad.
Greg
It does keep it simple, no switching locos, etc., but to me it always seemed wasteful and restrictive. With the number of locos I have, having a transmitter for each would be mad.
Greg
Tony Walsham
Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
G'Day Greg.
One Tx handpiece for each loco is not my philosophy. It never has been. The idea of one Tx handpiece per loco came from USA installers although one customer here used that as common practice.
I stress that with any DSM2 compatible R/C equipment you can bind as many locos to one Tx handpiece as you like.
With the Deltang auto bind Rx's, you can easily swap any loco between different Tx's.
I have a customer in Sydney who has four grandchildren. They each have one TX with their name on it.
When they visit Grandpa they take it in turns to select which of 8 locos (5 x Thomas and friends + 3 x others) they want to use and automatically bind it to their handpiece.
When they tire of that loco, they can park it, turn it off, select another loco not being used and bind it to their handpiece.
One Tx handpiece for each loco is not my philosophy. It never has been. The idea of one Tx handpiece per loco came from USA installers although one customer here used that as common practice.
I stress that with any DSM2 compatible R/C equipment you can bind as many locos to one Tx handpiece as you like.
With the Deltang auto bind Rx's, you can easily swap any loco between different Tx's.
I have a customer in Sydney who has four grandchildren. They each have one TX with their name on it.
When they visit Grandpa they take it in turns to select which of 8 locos (5 x Thomas and friends + 3 x others) they want to use and automatically bind it to their handpiece.
When they tire of that loco, they can park it, turn it off, select another loco not being used and bind it to their handpiece.