Introduction and Newbie questions

[potboiler]

Hi everyone,

I've recently caught the live steam bug and am now the proud owner of two Roundhouse locomotives. A Millie and a Charles Pooter. Now, the Millie I've been able to start up and run, but the Pooter is meths fired, and I have no idea how to fire it up. How do I light the wicks? Perhaps my BBQ lighter is not the way to go with this engine? Am I missing something obvious and self evident?? Help !

Thanks,
J

 

[maxi-model]

Hello J and wellcome. I can't answer your specific question. No doubt Tag (Gorton editor of Garden Rail) and others will be along in a short while. There is quite a wealth of knowledge here. You are in the right place.

You could also contact Roundhouse direct. They are a very helpful lot up in Doncaster.

Most of the product representing narrow guage in our "garden" scales these days is gas fired rather than meths. A good idea would be to join the association of 16 mm Narrow Guage Modelers (16 mm NGM should find them on Google). They have a strong "heritage" section that will be a valuable rescource to you there.

Meths firing is still predomininant in the Guage 1 world (1/32 standard guage running on 45 mm track). See the G1MRA site for more information there on meths firing.

Hope the bug gets a full hold of you. I'm sure would all love to see some piccies of your locos and line.

Max

 

[MRail]

After filling the meths tank, it needs a few seconds for the spirit to soak up the wicks.
They should then light from a flame introduced under the boiler to each wick in turn.
That is the "usual" way, but I don't have any experience with this specific loco.

The wicks need to be set and trimmed correctly, or it won't light up.
They should protrude about 3-4mm above the tubes.
When lit, the flame should be a clear blue with no more than a hint of yellow at the edges.

A downside is it's difficult to see the flames out of doors, if there's any sunlight!

I'm sure there will be contributions from the real experts.

 

[tagorton]

Hi everyone,

I've recently caught the live steam bug and am now the proud owner of two Roundhouse locomotives. A Millie and a Charles Pooter. Now, the Millie I've been able to start up and run, but the Pooter is meths fired, and I have no idea how to fire it up. How do I light the wicks? Perhaps my BBQ lighter is not the way to go with this engine? Am I missing something obvious and self evident?? Help !

Thanks,
J

First of all J ? welcome to a hobby that, for me, has never lost its fascination. The Millie certainly is a good choice of first model ? but in fact I am baffled as to how you managed to get hold of a Pooter ? I thought that those remaining were all in the hands of the 16mm 'heritage' boys..

Frankly it is not a good choice if you are new to live steam. Certainly the earlier ones will be badly worn ? if only because originally, they had very slim axle rods. I have converted one of these to utilise the later wheels and rods made by Roundhouse but it it not a job really for someone not used to these small steamers.

Why it does not light I have no idea, but always supposing the wicks don't need replacement and repacking, then you are perhaps trying to light the burner in the wrong way. What you need is a twist of fabric on the end of a length of wire. Dip into your meths, light and thrust up between the wheels front and rear until the burners are alight.

Don't use cr&p meths from your hardware store ? this is spirit recovered from all sorts of nameless uses and will crud up your boiler. What you want is methylated spirits BP from a chemist. I can remember going into a chemist and asking for this stuff plus the biggest syringe they had. Poor girl squeaked and dashed off to get a highly suspicious pharmacist.

It occurs to me that this model was not obtained from a highly visible source and, given that you are new to this I strongly suspect that you did not pay anything like the market price. Certainly it may be worth (to the heritage and collector people) a lot more than you paid for it and you may well have dipped in here. If you PM with what you paid I will get the current pricing on this rare item and perhaps we can then sort a modern model that will be more suitable. The reason I say this is not any sort of assumption regarding your skill level, but because doubtless you will wish to do a lot of running ? and the Pooter is nowadays, a 'high days and holidays' type of loco to conserve wear. Modern Roundhouse locos (which indeed I prefer myself) are better engineered, better built and better quality (in my opinion) and will happily cope with a heavy timetable on a garden line. You are welcome to call me and I will give you my telephone number when and if you PM me.

 

[potboiler]

Thanks for all the insight guys. I will check out 16mm NGM. As for the Pooter not being a good choice for someone new to live steam, I do not disagree. However, the big reasons why I purchased it are that it cosmetically looks to be in very good condition, and I am fascinated by the older types that this locomotive represents. Since I am getting good satisfaction from my Millie, I figure this will just be a long term project for me to get to know the engine.

It isn't that I am unable to fire it up. It's just that I simply do not know how. The gas fired engines are fairly straight forward. The alcohol fired ones seem to be more diverse and there does not seem to be many useful tutorials on the internet on how to prep and fire them up. Anyway, here are a couple of pics of the engine.

 

[Zerogee]

A lovely looking loco! Though I've not (yet) ventured into the Dark Arts of live steam, it's always there as a temptation...

Welcome to the forum, you'll usually get several sensible answers (plus a few daft ones for humourous effect) to practically anything you need to ask on here, and, like the Earth, we are "mostly harmless".

Jon.

 

[bobg]

Welcome J.

I like it; it has a nice business-like appeal. I wouldn't have thought it too different from gas fired really, just fill your tank and boiler, oil round, including the displacement lubricator, light the wicks, and wait for the pressure to build. Anything else will probably become self explanatory as you start to run. Controlling the amount of steam may take a bit of thought, and maybe some wick adjustment. A careful check the first few times to see that the water doesn't run out before the fire and then down to ever increasing experience. If things start to get out of hand, do as the big boys do, and drop the fire (blow it out).

Don't forget your gloves, they get hot!

 

[tagorton]

Thanks for all the insight guys. I will check out 16mm NGM. As for the Pooter not being a good choice for someone new to live steam, I do not disagree. However, the big reasons why I purchased it are that it cosmetically looks to be in very good condition, and I am fascinated by the older types that this locomotive represents. Since I am getting good satisfaction from my Millie, I figure this will just be a long term project for me to get to know the engine.

It isn't that I am unable to fire it up. It's just that I simply do not know how. The gas fired engines are fairly straight forward. The alcohol fired ones seem to be more diverse and there does not seem to be many useful tutorials on the internet on how to prep and fire them up. Anyway, here are a couple of pics of the engine.

These are worth quite a bit in this sort of condition.

 

[Rhos Helyg Loco Works]

Anyway, here are a couple of pics of the engine.

Thanks for these. They show that the loco already has the later (and current) style of axles, wheels and cranks so it is either a late-build loco or it has been modified, as described above by Tag. In either case, this is a good thing!

... maybe some wick adjustment. ... do as the big boys do, and drop the fire (blow it out).

Unfortunately these two can be mutually exclusive. As shown in the photo, the Pooter has four wick "pots" set very close together, which means that the fire in effect becomes one flame running along the top of all four pots. If one goes out it is immediately re-lit by its neighbour. Unless you have above average lung capacity, with wicks set correctly it is often extremely difficult, or even impossible, to blow out a meths fire.

Don't forget your gloves, they get hot!

They do, and I have fortunately only ever seen two locos dropped from a height by their owners. In both cases the owners were wearing gloves.

 

[potboiler]

It's the lighting the wicks part that I dont really understand. The oiling and feuling appear intuitive, but how do I get the lighter between the wheels or under the engine to light the wicks? Am I missing something obvious?

My intention is to run the engine once or twice a year, rather than being a workhorse. It's too dear to be worn out by weekly running. I'd like to keep it in as new condition as possible, but still get the maximum enjoyment.

 

[Rhos Helyg Loco Works]

It's the lighting the wicks part that I dont really understand. ... how do I get the lighter between the wheels or under the engine to light the wicks?

As Tag said, "What you need is a twist of fabric on the end of a length of wire. Dip into your meths, light and thrust up between the wheels front and rear until the burners are alight.". That is exactly how I do it!

 

[potboiler]

Ah ! Got it. Thanks everyone for the kind replies. Now to see if it works...

 

[400Parker]

Unless you have above average lung capacity, with wicks set correctly it is often extremely difficult, or even impossible, to blow out a meths fire.

It's certainly not a young person's loco, Tony. But as one gets older there tends to be more candles on the birthday cake each year, so your lung capacity has to increase to get them all out in one puff. For someone like Tag, extinguishing a pot boiler is no problem at all.
Steve

 

[tagorton]

Unless you have above average lung capacity, with wicks set correctly it is often extremely difficult, or even impossible, to blow out a meths fire.

It's certainly not a young person's loco, Tony. But as one gets older there tends to be more candles on the birthday cake each year, so your lung capacity has to increase to get them all out in one puff. For someone like Tag, extinguishing a pot boiler is no problem at all.
Steve

Indeed Steve and I understand you are full of wind as well Old age and cunning etc, etc....

 

[Zerogee]

"Old age and guile beats youth, innocence and a bad haircut" - P.J. O'Rourke

"We have enough YOUTH - how about a Fountain of SMART....?" - unknown, but a good quote!

Jon.

 

[minimans]

Fantastic engine! It occurs to me that finding a helpful "Old timer" might be your best course of action with this one, I know from experience learning to fire my alcohol burner that a fire outside of where you want it! is fairly inevitable until you get the hang of it and that loco is so nice it would be a shame to get scorch marks on it! Let us know what area you are in and I'm sure somebody will help you out.

 

[potboiler]

Fantastic engine! It occurs to me that finding a helpful "Old timer" might be your best course of action with this one, I know from experience learning to fire my alcohol burner that a fire outside of where you want it! is fairly inevitable until you get the hang of it and that loco is so nice it would be a shame to get scorch marks on it! Let us know what area you are in and I'm sure somebody will help you out.

Point taken ! I made sure not to pass this engine up since it looked to be in such good shape. It'd be a shame if I were to ruin it by learning on this one. Maybe one of these days I can get a junker to experiment with... BTW, I live in the Northern Virginia area.
J

 

[Shawn]

That is a nice looking engine. Maybe Ill see ya at some future steam up. Im in Northwest New Jersey.

 

[minimans]

Fantastic engine! It occurs to me that finding a helpful "Old timer" might be your best course of action with this one, I know from experience learning to fire my alcohol burner that a fire outside of where you want it! is fairly inevitable until you get the hang of it and that loco is so nice it would be a shame to get scorch marks on it! Let us know what area you are in and I'm sure somebody will help you out.

Point taken ! I made sure not to pass this engine up since it looked to be in such good shape. It'd be a shame if I were to ruin it by learning on this one. Maybe one of these days I can get a junker to experiment with... BTW, I live in the Northern Virginia area.

J

Well I'm nearer than the UK (JUST) but still a bit far for a Saturday visit! Hope you find somebody local.......

 

[Chris Bird]

Hi J - that looks like a fine loco!

Back in the days when meths/spitit firing was king, folk has a steaming up stand (or track) where the loco stood on a couple of rails with space underneath. You can just use a couple of blocks of wood. Tag's piece of wire needs to be about a foot long and have three inches at one end bent up to a right angle and then a bit more. The end needs to be hooked so you can clamp a scrap of rag in it. As has been said, this rag is soaked in the spirit and pushed up beside each wick - do not rely on one lighting the rest. Use a mirror to check - I have a cheap toolbox one on a handle.

I have to admit that I tend to just hold the loco up in the air and use a gas lighter set on high flame. Again I light each wick and I can usually stand the heat until all are lit. Of course I couldn't possibly recommend this method!

I restored an earlier one from a wreck - if you are interested, you can read about it here:
https://sites.google.com/a/gardenrailwayclub.com/club/locos/roundhouse-charles-pooter < Link To https://sites.google.com/...ndhouse-charles-pooter

Cheers
Chris