Kit-bashing – thoughts of a beginner

[idlemarvel]

Having just about completed my first real foray into kit-bashing I’m having a moment of reflection on the process, and whether for me it’s worth it. So this is a bit of a ramble and I want to stress up front is a reflection on me and my thoughts on the subject, to which you may entirely disagree, indeed I hope you do!

The reasons for kit-bashing are usually either because the model you want is not available off the shelf, or it is but it is too expensive. In my case it was the latter. I wanted a Saxon 4 axle baggage car but did not want to pay £180 for the privilege. So I took a Newqida passenger car and went to work with razor saw, plasticard, etc., to see if I could come up with something a bit like it. The results of these efforts I may post on another thread, this is more about the process.

1. This is my first serious attempt at kit-bashing, some bits look okay, but some rather disappointing. It’s a bit like my attempts at playing golf, your first tee shot is brilliant and you think hey this is easy, then you spend the next five minutes hacking the ball out of the rough and wondering why you are doing this. I’m fairly sure I could get better with practice, but I don’t think I will ever match the off the shelf quality, just like I could never be a pro golfer. It is of course possible to do better, and this forum has many examples of excellent modelling every day, but not from me.
2. I never have quite the right tools or materials available. It was frustrating having to stop and get slightly thicker plasticard, different types of glue, more rattle cans as the one you need runs out half way through, and I could have done with a longer razor saw but made do. So you end up either to going to the shops or more likely given the lack of local modelling shops, ordering online and wait for Mr Amazon.
3. Related to this is the true cost of kit-bashing. I could say “look at this, for the cost of a Newqida passenger car (£30) I have a baggage car which would have cost £180”. But the reality is that you have to include paint, transfers, glue and other materials that you may or may not have to hand but at some point you would have bought them, unless you’re a “scrap-yard challenge” kind of modeller. Example of the transfers from troeger-2m, they may cost “only” 12 euros but then there’s postage to add. I reckon this £30 model actually cost at least £70, which I admit is still a considerable saving.
4. Then there is the time spent and elapsed time. Probably 8 weeks elapsed from me making the plans to getting all the stuff together, building and painting it and having a model I can run. Maybe only 20 hours of actual modelling. Of course if you enjoy the modelling this is all time well spent.
5. Related to this is my keenness to see results. I’ve always been a bit of an “80/20” person; that is I’m prepared to get 80% of the results with 20% of the effort. I find the modelling process enjoyable and engrossing but only up to a point. I’m sure this is why I’m never completely satisfied with the end result but I’m too old to change this facet of my character.

You can probably see why I’m coming to the conclusion kit-bashing (or scratch-building) is not for me. I know there are many model railway enthusiasts for whom the actual modelling is the thing they enjoy most, and if you have acquired the skills, tools and materials over many years then many of the points above won’t apply or you won't think they matter. I'm quite envious of such people. Maybe when 3D printing reaches the masses I will have another go. But in the meantime I think I’ll save my money for buying ready made models, and time for playing trains.

Having said all this, I do enjoy fixing broken or restoring dilapidated second-hand models, so in the particular case of the Saxon 4-axle baggage car I may have to wait until one comes on the second hand market!

 

[G-force1]

I can see exactly what you mean, and where you are coming from, and think that perhaps you have yet to arrive. I too like the pristine off the shelf model, to my mind weathering (and this is entirely my view) spoils a nice model, though I can see the other side of the coin and sincerely appreciate what others have done and often the reality of them. It's just not for me. I have built planes and boats and trains, and enjoyed all of them, though planes can be a disaster waiting to happen, and often are. My problem is I am more of a builder than a runner so once completed I quickly tire of it and move on, hopefully to make something better in quality than the last. I can only suggest that you should not give up entirely but to try making/converting something a little less taxing and learn from mistakes (don't doubt for one moment that you will make others) and in the end some increasing joy will be had with each completion.

As to tools to do the job, I've struggled by for year upon year with old decrepit items, and have come to the conclusion that if you feel you need it - GET it. You are unlikely to regret it. I have just replaced two workshop items, that I've struggled to keep going and really weren't worth that effort.

ALL modelling is a game of patience - played slow.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Having just about completed my first real foray into kit-bashing I’m having a moment of reflection on the process, and whether for me it’s worth it. So this is a bit of a ramble and I want to stress up front is a reflection on me and my thoughts on the subject, to which you may entirely disagree, indeed I hope you do!

The reasons for kit-bashing are usually either because the model you want is not available off the shelf, or it is but it is too expensive. In my case it was the latter. I wanted a Saxon 4 axle baggage car but did not want to pay £180 for the privilege. So I took a Newqida passenger car and went to work with razor saw, plasticard, etc., to see if I could come up with something a bit like it. The results of these efforts I may post on another thread, this is more about the process.

1. This is my first serious attempt at kit-bashing, some bits look okay, but some rather disappointing. It’s a bit like my attempts at playing golf, your first tee shot is brilliant and you think hey this is easy, then you spend the next five minutes hacking the ball out of the rough and wondering why you are doing this. I’m fairly sure I could get better with practice, but I don’t think I will ever match the off the shelf quality, just like I could never be a pro golfer. It is of course possible to do better, and this forum has many examples of excellent modelling every day, but not from me.
2. I never have quite the right tools or materials available. It was frustrating having to stop and get slightly thicker plasticard, different types of glue, more rattle cans as the one you need runs out half way through, and I could have done with a longer razor saw but made do. So you end up either to going to the shops or more likely given the lack of local modelling shops, ordering online and wait for Mr Amazon.
3. Related to this is the true cost of kit-bashing. I could say “look at this, for the cost of a Newqida passenger car (£30) I have a baggage car which would have cost £180”. But the reality is that you have to include paint, transfers, glue and other materials that you may or may not have to hand but at some point you would have bought them, unless you’re a “scrap-yard challenge” kind of modeller. Example of the transfers from troeger-2m, they may cost “only” 12 euros but then there’s postage to add. I reckon this £30 model actually cost at least £70, which I admit is still a considerable saving.
4. Then there is the time spent and elapsed time. Probably 8 weeks elapsed from me making the plans to getting all the stuff together, building and painting it and having a model I can run. Maybe only 20 hours of actual modelling. Of course if you enjoy the modelling this is all time well spent.
5. Related to this is my keenness to see results. I’ve always been a bit of an “80/20” person; that is I’m prepared to get 80% of the results with 20% of the effort. I find the modelling process enjoyable and engrossing but only up to a point. I’m sure this is why I’m never completely satisfied with the end result but I’m too old to change this facet of my character.

You can probably see why I’m coming to the conclusion kit-bashing (or scratch-building) is not for me. I know there are many model railway enthusiasts for whom the actual modelling is the thing they enjoy most, and if you have acquired the skills, tools and materials over many years then many of the points above won’t apply or you won't think they matter. I'm quite envious of such people. Maybe when 3D printing reaches the masses I will have another go. But in the meantime I think I’ll save my money for buying ready made models, and time for playing trains.

Having said all this, I do enjoy fixing broken or restoring dilapidated second-hand models, so in the particular case of the Saxon 4-axle baggage car I may have to wait until one comes on the second hand market!

Don't do yerself down.

Usually the finished product looks far worse in the eyes of the maker, because you now where the imperfections lie, but the average punter (including the railway modeling cognoscenti) usually cannot see them

Secondly - whatever it looks like, it's what you made to suit what you needed

I can fully empathise with the lack of tools, and the impatience - but just put it down to experience - you can sometimes do a bit of fettling in a few months' time and make it even better

As to cost - you'll never crack that. I made a scratch / bashed loco with a fully scratchbuilt chassis - a 2-6-2 with bogie tender - and the wheels alone cost me £120 and that was about 6 or 7 years ago

 

[Paul M]

Idlemarvel, mate it's not the monetary cost that make people scratch build or bash, it does usually work out that much cheaper really. It's the fun and what you get at the end. Very few people are brilliant, yes there are a lot on this forum, but there's probably far, far more who aren't but who still enjoy making things. Anyway if you don't have a go, you might be missing out! Anyway I bet your bash looks the part

 

[idlemarvel]

Thank you all for your kind words of encouragement. I will post pictures of my effort once I have applied the transfers. And yes I am my own worst critic. We'll see.

 

[korm kormsen]

kitbashing, scratchbuilding...

there are many factors, that make us do that.
as you mentioned, trying to save can be one. i made track from curtain rails, to save money.
(but they were replaced, when the purse wasn't so slim anymore...)

one can't find ready-made exactly, what you want. depending on ones skills, the results vary from pathetic to marvelous.
(for me personally, a new shiny toy offends my eyes. so either i alter/"weather" the shiny toys, or i build something shabby)

pride. "i made that" said casually to a visitor guarantees a lot more atention than "that has cost me XX"

but the most important seems (to me) to be the time factor. once we leave the slaving for income, we got much more time avayable.
while i was working (outdoors) i had an hour or a half per day for my railroad empire. so, whenever the purse was not too anemic, buying was a way to save precious "free time".
when i declared myself (semi) retired, more and more of my money was spent on tools, to make toys, instead of buying the toys.
(the 3D printer, i bought, helped me to make (ugly) figures at about 30$ a piece. but it is fun.)

you go, you buy, and then you watch, how the toys run in circles. - and that, when your days have 24 hours plus the nights...
... that was the point, where i started to have more fun in buildiing thingies for the layout, instead of buying.
the building is a way to kill time, before time kills us.
(i realized that, when they called me back into service as a volunteer firefighter. since i am "fathering" a bunch of kid-heroes, my workbench and my dozen or so partially done projects are slowly disapearing under spiderwebs...
doing a job meant for a man of half my age is such an energy-drain, that i'm just able to stay on the forums and to dream about all the things i will build, after my next retirement.)

well, the thread started with a rant - so i had to stay on topic ;-)

my point is:
it is a hobby for old men. our toys are small enough, that there is not too much heavy lifting, and big enough to be seen (if we find the reading glasses)
and being a hobby, it's about spending time in a pleasant way.
and kit-bashing or scratch building do just that.
(apart from keeping the "Darling do" attacks at bay. "no, not now. i'm watching how the paint dries.")

 

[trammayo]

Throwing in my two penny worth, I have to say that creating something is a lot more enjoyable than running trains. I'm not a purist (but can be pedantic sometimes), and if what I'm making looks OK, then that is fine.

Yes, we are the most critical of people when it comes to our work. My adage is quite simple - "I wouldn't work for anybody like me!".

I make (or try to) things that are not available that I like the look of. Even, like David, making things that I couldn't afford - and I don't spend a lot of money. My upbringing in the modelling world started with Meccano, and later Mamod (still have the Stationary Engine for my 14th year Xmas pressy).

My dad made '0 gauge' stuff from tinplate whilst other people I knew made models from Balsa or Bristol Board. So I still use card board with the addition of Birch Ply and different strip woods. Whilst I wouldn't leave these items outside, they are very durable otherwise.

As for tools (being of the short arms and deep pockets following), I look at the Retail/Tradesmen costs, then evaluate the actual material costs plus the cost of the tools to do the job. If those total costs come in well under the former costs then that's the road I take. When the job is done you still have the tools which will come in useful later!

Modelling tools needn't cost the earth - a razor saw, modelling knives, a fret saw, and a drill (hand or electric), a steel rule and a cutting mat go a long way. Whilst I have a lathe (my dearest single item - and certainly the heaviest), I have turned things using an electric drill clamped in a vice with the aid of files. Six-inch nails (or smaller) provide the bar stock! If your finances won't allow the luxury of acquiring more purposeful tools, then save up - even if it's in cocoa tin hidden away from one's partner! All you need is to set yourself a goal!

Only physical decrepitude will call a halt to my 'do-it myself' attitude - that and a win on the lottery. Oh, I forgot - you have to play the lottery to stand a chance!

And that's my rant for today over (well maybe)!

 

[idlemarvel]

...
(apart from keeping the "Darling do" attacks at bay. "no, not now. i'm watching how the paint dries.")

Love it, I can't wait to try that one!

 

[dunnyrail]

I have read the intitial and following posts with great interest. Sometimes I dispair of Modelling then along come some words to say that it is going on and we see the likes of various items built out of very little but with a lot of time and effort spent. You guys know who you are and an inspiration to us all, me included and yes I do Scratch plus Kit bash.

The thing is in many cases it is the journey to achieve something that is the pleasure as is the final product. You have made a unique item that now will grace your Railway and you will be able to say with pride that 'I made that'. Tools gather over the years as do materials. Yes one may spend perhaps 10-20 quid or more on materials for a project and there may be surplus. But they will come in for the next project. If the left overs offend create another project to use them up, who says that you can not? The thought process to do this over a cup of tea or glass of beer are a good way to while away an hour or so. As Ford Prefect once said 'time is an illusion, lunch time doubly so'. Enjoy your building and do not give up on it. You will only get better and perhaps in time find that just beeing a Red Box Buyer looses its appeal. Then at Shows you will be looking at the boxes under the stands for junkers to add your magic to.

 

[David1226]

For me scratch building is a necessity. In my O-16.5 freelance British narrow gauge days everything was scratch built for the dual reasons of cheapness and the fun of creating a unique model. When I started out in G Scale I wanted to carry on with that theme. In those days every G Scale model was either Continental or US outline, there were no British outline models until Accucraft came along. Of necessity I had to kitbash/scratch build in order to produce the look I was after. There is also the satisfaction of producing a unique model, there may be many items of stock out there similar to mine but I know there are none that are identical.



David

 

[Rhinochugger]

Yes, the tools thing is a bit of a balancing act, although as has been said, most modelling tools are fairly low cost.

When my family were young, I would not spend out much on tools either for modelling or DIY - with the result that I took the slow and painful path in many instances. I also became an expert on going cheep

However, as they have grown, and become slightly less expensive, I have allowed myself the purchase of some better DIY tools which can also help with the modelling.

A miniature drill (such as a Dremel) is useful, although being tight (going cheep, cheep) I have a modelcraft one - it's a PITA for drilling, but my DIY drills will hold small bits (although the new Aldi / Lidl Lion battery one will only go down to 2.5 mm)

Some years ago, I bought a modelling saw with three interchangeable blades in Hobbycraft - never seen them again, and a couple of the blades are getting a bit worn

I suppose we ought to start a bit of 'show and tell' here, in an environment which is fairly free of unnecessary criticism, and where we can encourage each other - especially if we feel that we're not in the 'Premier League' of scratchbuilders as it were.

One of my favourites is my 10-wheeler, which was upscaled from a Bachmann Annie to 1:20.3 ish. I was a bit wary about cutting and carving the tender, so I settled on scratchbuilding a whaleback. I was also concerned about my ability to cut and carve the cab, so bought a Connie cab from the late Wob of this forum.

I did, however, manage to cut and carve a cab for my 2-6-2; more later maybe

 

[Henri]

Usually the finished product looks far worse in the eyes of the maker, because you now where the imperfections lie, but the average punter (including the railway modeling cognoscenti) usually cannot see them

THIS is exactly so very true!!!

I know I'll never meet the fit & finish of manufacturers, but I immensely enjoy putting things together and even more, finding solutions for 'problems' on how to get things done.

But I often have to reflect to the above quoted lines... No it is not perfect, but I enjoyed the journey to get there immensely.

 

[Rhinochugger]

THIS is exactly so very true!!!

I know I'll never meet the fit & finish of manufacturers, but I immensely enjoy putting things together and even more, finding solutions for 'problems' on how to get things done.

But I often have to reflect to the above quoted lines... No it is not perfect, but I enjoyed the journey to get there immensely.

Yes, I think another key skill is to know how to cheat when you're aware of your limitations.

For that combine in the picture behind the 10-wheeler, I used a plywood base for the sides and ends, and doll's house plastic windows. So the windows, in themselves, are true and square, and it didn't matter if the holes that I cut for them were not quite perfick, as they'd be covered by the match boarding

It helps to have a cunning plan

 

[idlemarvel]

...I suppose we ought to start a bit of 'show and tell' here, in an environment which is fairly free of unnecessary criticism, and where we can encourage each other - especially if we feel that we're not in the 'Premier League' of scratchbuilders as it were....

Agreed, and in this spirit I have just posted a new thread that describes the modelling referenced at the top of this thread.

I was a bit wary about starting this thread, it felt like a bit of a whinge and whine, but it seems to have sparked some interesting discussion, so I'm glad I did.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Agreed, and in this spirit I have just posted a new thread that describes the modelling referenced at the top of this thread.

I was a bit wary about starting this thread, it felt like a bit of a whinge and whine, but it seems to have sparked some interesting discussion, so I'm glad I did.

I suppose that's another aspect of scratchbuiling / bashing - when it hasn't quite gone tickety boo, you need to have somewhere to let off steam

 

[Paul M]

Agreed, and in this spirit I have just posted a new thread that describes the modelling referenced at the top of this thread.

I was a bit wary about starting this thread, it felt like a bit of a whinge and whine, but it seems to have sparked some interesting discussion, so I'm glad I did.

I think most people feel the same way, a bit nervous about starting, then worried what people might think. But it's your hobby so you can play how you want

 

[Tim Brien]

The hardest thing for me when embarking on a new project was making that first fateful cut. After that the modelling begins. It seemed like every day I would awaken with a new project in my mind that had to be attempted and thus I ended up with numerous partly completed projects. I would get them to the stage where all the hard, fiddly work was done and basically paint and decals to complete, however, that final stage of construction always seemed to elude me. Paint and decals on a large coach can be expensive, compounded by the number of models to be painted. I liked the construction phase as the cost was basically just that of the parts used.

My advice would be try to remain focused on a project and attempt completion prior moving on to another 'must do' project. For me this was almost impossible as there were so many things that I wanted to accomplish. This year I have gone back over my partly completed projects and in the main have completed most of them, some going back about ten years. I still have around sixteen or so highly modified coaches that are painted awaiting decals (which fortunately I purchased some years ago as I believe Microscale are out of the G scale business) and about ten unpainted coach projects. Looks like these will be placed on the back burner until next year.

 

[Northsider]

Like others, I enjoy building models more than running trains, though I quite like running trains, too. As others have noted, scratchbuilding/kitbashing isn't always the cheapest route, but I get a particular sense of satisfaction when running rolling stock where the only bought in parts are screws and wheelsets. As for the time spent, I now realise why my parents bought me Airfix kits -making stuff takes time, and making stuff well takes longer. Making stuff that is perfect takes...well, I don't know, I've never made anything perfect! Tools cost money, but once you've got them, you've got them; I still have the Stanley knife I bought when I was twelve (in the days when children could buy such things!), and it's a bit like the Italians say about quality clothes: by the time they've worn out, you've forgotten how much they cost. As for materials and the like, I used to be envious of the people who would say 'I looked in the scraps box and found a perfect Westinghouse/brake standard/set of axleboxes'; but after a few years I've got a scraps box with window frames, step hangers, bits of brass and plastic angle, odd BA screws and nuts: all completely useless (which is why I've not used them yet), but at least I can say 'I'll have a look in my scraps box'. But finally, get your new kitbashed baggage car out, couple it behind your favourite loco and send it off down the line; listen to the wheels on the rail-joints, and watch as it turns a corner looking -just for a moment- like the real thing; and, no matter how modest you may be, remind yourself: 'I made that'.

Feels good, doesn't it?

 

[SophieB]

kitbashing, scratchbuilding...

...my point is:
it is a hobby for old men. our toys are small enough, that there is not too much heavy lifting, and big enough to be seen (if we find the reading glasses)
and being a hobby, it's about spending time in a pleasant way.
and kit-bashing or scratch building do just that.
(apart from keeping the "Darling do" attacks at bay. "no, not now. i'm watching how the paint dries.")

Excuse me? I'd like to mention that there are plenty of "old ladies" involved in the hobby also. About half of the active members of our local garden train club are women, including our current President. Due to my husband's neuropathy in his hands I do most of the bashing and building for our railroad.

Sophie B
Dismal Creek Railroad brakeperson

Edited to add: On reflection that sounds a bit brusque, wasn't really meant to be But there is quite a bit of participation by the distaff side of the hobby, we just don't seem to be well represented online.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Excuse me? I'd like to mention that there are plenty of "old ladies" involved in the hobby also. About half of the active members of our local garden train club are women, including our current President. Due to my husband's neuropathy in his hands I do most of the bashing and building for our railroad.

Sophie B
Dismal Creek Railroad brakeperson

Edited to add: On reflection that sounds a bit brusque, wasn't really meant to be But there is quite a bit of participation by the distaff side of the hobby, we just don't seem to be well represented online.

Yeah, nice one Sophie - I was a bit worried about the 'old' epitaph