LGB Allegra 20220 - first impressions..

[PhilP]

I have one of these sets to fit a Massoth XLS sound decoder (more on that later!)..
First thoughts:
This is a cracking piece of kit!
Definitely in a different league to the E10 (budget, `Piko killer` model). The whole package screams quality and attention to detail. Very crisp mouldings and graphics. Nice detailing on roof and bodies.

There are a number of `gotchas` to be aware of though.. It would appear that you will probably have to run the rake of three vehicles. - NOTE: I have not tried this yet, but it has been reported that you are not able to run as even a two-car unit.

Electronics are in the centre car, so this is where you will find the switches. - NOT in the Engineers cab, as the paperwork states!! ???
The switches are on the LHS inner wall of the B centre car. You will need to use the (supplied) suction cup to open the pair of RHS doors to reach across to these switches.. My guess will be many will never need to touch them! They are at the front (catenary end) of this car, roughly where they `wheelchair, pram, bike` logo`s are printed. - no excuse for not finding them now.



The cars are a very good interference fit in the expanded polystyrene packaging.. I have found the best way to get them out is to bunch-up the plastic sheet at either end of the car and lift them out with this.

The cables to connect car-to-car are keyed, and certainly initially, very tight to remove once they are in. - They will ease with use, but if you ease out the `keyway` side of the socket with a fingernail, it helps.

There are switches for catenary/track power, and the obligatory 4-way power switch; 0-off, 1-lights, 2-motors and lights, 3-as position 2.
Normal rules of analogue ONLY for catenary power. The destination lights are a strip of five surface-mount LED`s per window, and a selection of destination overlays (plus other decals) are included.

I am going to need a lot more than my customary four-foot of track to set this one up, so it will be a day or so before I can give many more details and thoughts..

Massoth have provided an XLS decoder programmed with the correct sounds, and it will be interesting to see how this compared with the factory fitted examples. Massoth have also supplied wiring information for me as this unit uses two of the 10-way interface cables. - More on this once I get inside the beastie!  ???

 

[Keith RhB]

Looking forward to seeing/hearing your results Phil! Note also that Massoth has just released new firmware specifically for the Allegra so you can take advantage of the SUSI bus and all the cool lighting features such as high beam etc. Have a look at the Spur G blog if you haven't seen that info already.
In the meantime I've just got to wait until they reach my side of the pond...likely a few weeks still as I'm waiting for the digital one and I don't think even Santa can make it in time...

Keith

 

[PhilP]

Hi Keith,
I think you will be impressed.. Not sure if the Marklin name is well known your side of the pond? But they do quite a range of gauge 1 products. Now they are at the helm of LGB we could see less of the famous 'rubber ruler'.
From 10 minutes in the shop with a fully digital version, they have really gone to town on it! Separate control of much of the lighting, station announcements for all the destinations in sequence, and more..

I wonder, if things go to plan, we will see a new influx of models over the next year or so??
Phil.

 

[Keith RhB]

Thanks for the update, Phil! It does appear that Maerklin is raising the bar and trying to be more prototypical--especially with the latest RhB offerings. The wood sided Kuoni box car looks good for next year, and they still have a few variants of the RhB rungenwagen left up their sleeve too. It's a great time to be a LGB RhB fan, that's for sure...

Keith

 

[shropshire lad]

The special Allegra version of the Zimo MX 695 plugs straight in without the need for any extra wiring looms.
It also uses the modified Susi as an LGB bus. Might be tempted to get one meself now.

 

[Philbahn]

Been having a look at mine. Yes you need to remove the fourteen screws of the centre car to gain access to where the mother board is, but you also need to remove the corridor conectors.
Undecided as of  yet which decoder to fit. Had a bad experience.with ESU in my Mikado. Zimo never tried . Then Massoth, reading their blurb doesn`t fill me with  confidence :- : :

I agree the build  quality is very good, but the lighting in the cars is (I feel) not very good even with a supply of 22volts (yes I know the board limits it) mey become brighter when the chip is fitted. Although again Massoth say don`t alter cv`s because of the complexities of the wiring.

So who is going first? And which chip?

 

[PhilP]

Well this is what you get in the Massoth kit..

 

[andyspencer]

[attachimg=1]
Undecided as of yet which decoder to fit. Had a bad experience.with ESU in my Mikado. Zimo never tried . Then Massoth, reading their blurb doesn't fill me with confidence :-\ : :

Little thread drift, but was just wondering what bad experience with you had with ESU? Heard a few mention it, but never what their issues were...

 

[Elmtree Line]

I bought the Allegra too 

 

[Philbahn]

When ar e you getting the other two cars Keith

 

[PhilP]

Right,
Allegra 20220 set:
I am calling the car with driver figure the A car..
Motor-blocks at front of A car and rear (cab end) of the B power-car. There are skates on the motor-blocks, and 'brush' pickups on all axles on the A and B cars. The intermediate car does not have pickups on the bogies (at least, as far as I can see from a cursory inspection). I mounted the intermediate car with the pantograph closest to the A car.
A or B car alone, power to track, no response from the units.
A car plus intermediate car (NOTE: the jumper/interconnecting cables will only fit one way round!), power to track, unit will run in both directions, and lighting works.

This makes sense, as the power and track/catenary switches are in the centre car.

The pantographs appear to have a link into the body, but do not respond to direction-changes of the unit. - We are talking analogue here remember. I am not taking them apart, or fitting the Massoth decoder at this time.

The B power-car will not run on it's own. It will run with the intermediate car connected.
Just to be belligerent! I tried 180-ing the intermediate car.. The connectors at both ends of the car are handed the same way, so you can connect it either way round in your formation.
The combination of a power-car and intermediate car will run. The orientation of the intermediate car does not matter to the unit running.

The underside of the intermediate car has holes for a speaker (the power-cars do not) so it would appear you would be on your own if you missed to put a speaker in both power-cars.

(I will copy this into the 'review' thread as well). - See, I have!

 

[PhilP]

I was going to suggest leaving the interconnecting cables plugged into the power-cars.. The connectors are 'inside' the corridor-bellow mouldings.. However, unless you cut the expanded polystyrene packaging, you can't get the cars back in the box with the cables plugged-in.

If I thought the bathroom scales were accurate enough, I would weigh the box with contents. Definitely need a decent wheat-based breakfast if lugging this set about much!

 

[Loco]

The analog Allegra (20220) does not have operating pantographs, only the digital (20225) does and then only for the end cars, not the panto in the middle.

 

[PaulRhB]

The pantograph arrangement on the digi one does make sense. At first on the Bernina they only used the centre pantograph for the DC voltage used only on that line so it can stay up.
On the rest of the system, AC voltage, they always seem use the outer two pantographs which generally means that rear one is up though if two units are coupled or to a loco they will use the opposite ends so it doesn't affect the catenary.

 

[Keith RhB]

Paul, I think you may have it backwards on the pantos. On the Bernina they use one or both end pantos (both when ascending steep sections and they need more power), and they use the single middle panto for the other lines.
@PhilP: didn't read the manual did you? On page 8 it says do NOT mix up the car order or you will damage the units! Still waiting for mine, that's the only reason I took the time to read the manual online.
OK, correction hat off....

Keith

 

[PaulRhB]

Yep I think you're right Keith I think the photo is Pontresina rather than Chur! Need a bigger screen

 

[Philbahn]

You are right Keith the car with the driver in has a blank door like feature this must line up with the two window side of the middle car.

 

[Keith RhB]

Another way to remember is to put the three window drive unit adjacent the three window end of the middle unit, which leaves the two window drive unit adjacent the two window end of the middle car.
Hope that makes sense! O0

Keith

 

[PhilP]

And so it begins!
Massoth 8230022 Decoder kit installation to Allegra 20220 set
Part one - getting it apart!

Apologies if I repeat things from above, but I guess many will only print this one out in the future! (also means the Mods can `hack` it out and put a version in the decoder fitting section as well!)

This is what you get in the Massoth 8230022 kit:



Decoder, speaker, cables screws  right-angle headers, instructions (including colour print of wiring)..

This next series of photo`s show the centre car underside. The pantograph is to the left-hand end, and the photos run left to right..







There are fourteen screws to remove to split the upper-body from the chassis. The four large screws at either end, and the six smaller screws under the doors..



NOTE!
The centre screw under the doors appears to have had the end removed! please note this for re-assembly.
These screws did not appear to be particularly tight, and I would suggest caution when tightening them, so as not to strip the thread in the fairly soft plastics.

Before you can split the unit, you need to remove the bellows from either end..



These just pull straight off.

The innards!



This shot shows the general arrangement of the internals, and wiring to switches etc.



Note the analogue daughter-board..
Also, note the large hole adjacent the two stand-offs to the left of the speaker position. This is for a volume pot. There is also a hole above the speaker position.. I will come back to these later!



Daughter-board removed..  Removed and `flipped` downwards along its` bottom edge, as viewed.
`S1` will be plugged into the left-hand rows of sockets, and `S2` into the right-hand row.. Note there is a blanked hole in the fourth position from the bottom of `S2`.
The legend(s) on the daughter-board will assist anyone brave (foolhardy?) enough to want to customise things further!





Speaker (as supplied, Massoth 8241010) and decoder to show general position. Note the relative positions of the speaker mounting hole, and the bottom-left stand-off on the decoder. This position `should` clear the obstructions on the body! The one hole under the decoder does NOT line up with the upper-right stand-off.

Please follow these threads to the end before drilling holes and mounting things!
I actually moved the decoder to tidy the leads a little, and avoid all the existing holes in the chassis.

There is a moulded hole for a volume pot. but this is not supplied in the kit. - this is the one CV I might try altering.. Dire warnings are given to not alter anything. To definitely not alter the function divider settings (light dimming). Also, to not try to program the decoder when fitted to the car, as to much current is drawn by all the bells and whistles.
Probably the Massoth DIMAX PC-Module is not able to supply enough current for this.
I will download the CV`s etc. before fitting the decoder and make them available for discussion as a separate post to this thread.
Next, Part two - wiring and `gotchas`!

 

[PhilP]

Massoth 8230022 Decoder kit installation to Allegra 20220 set
Part two - wiring and `gotchas`!

Now we start getting our hands dirty!
Firstly, a `gotcha` or two:
1. The switches are in the centre car, NOT behind the Engineer/Driver as per the supplied literature.
You can just see the pantograph, top right of picture, so we are looking through the right-hand-side doors here..



2. This is probably the most useful accessory supplied in the box! - The `suction cup` used to pull the doors open.. I feel a quote from `The Italian Job` coming on!!

sucker picky!

3. The 10-way decoder sockets supplied with Massoth decoders are not all wired `the same way round`. See the picky below, and GO BY THE COLOURS, EVERY TIME!



4. I would suggest you use (at least) one of the right-angle headers the `wrong-way round`. They will be the same height above the board whichever way round, but one way makes it easier to remove a pin without the chance of the `stub` making a contact. - Not strictly a problem, as you cut the wire from the 10-way socket as well, but `belt and braces`.



Headers shown in both orientations.. I will be using the right-hand option..



Here you can clearly see the third pin from the top (as viewed) has been cut from `S2`. The corresponding orange wire has also been removed. Second blue wire from other end also removed.
`S1` has all its` pins, but the red wire removed.

If you are following these notes, and also have the Massoth supplied notes and illustrations, be aware that I am working from the other side of the loco (to some) of the Massoth documentation! - In fact we have both `chopped and changed` sides to make things clearer, but once I had the unit apart, it was easier to rotate it 180 degrees and have the body tipped away from me.

Mark the two 10-way socket/header assemblies `S1` and `S2` on the TOP surface, as per the instructions. DOUBLE check you have this right. work-out which way round they will go onto the circuit board. Lay them out. Get the Massoth picky and orientate the same way as your loco. Check .. Check again, then count the `empty` connectors from one end of the board, and carefully insert the headers.. Repeat for the second cable assembly.
Pause.
Look away.
Go through the above steps again, to double-check you have things in the correct orientation!
Also, check you do not have any of the black wires caught between the pins of `S2`.

An aside, and a bit of lateral thinking.. If you have the `digital set` you get a special programming cable.. I have not seen one of these, but it must mean you can get to the track and motor connections through the end plugs on the units.. it also means that I should be able to workout a `bodge-lead` to allow me to connect into the decoder without unscrewing all them-there wires..
I will work on this, and comeback to it later..

I am not going to tell you how to screw-fasten the loudspeaker.. But just watch you do not trap any of the black wires under the lip of the speaker as you are working. - No need to ask why I suggest this!



As viewed, `S1` plugs in starting at the BOTTOM of the header on the board. `S2` plugs in with one socket vacant at the BOTTOM (as viewed) and the cut pin straddles the blanked socket on the header.

We now need to wire these to the decoder.
I tend to work my way up each side of the decoder. Refer to the pictures, and table of connections as supplied by Massoth. Though not particularly clear in the Massoth photograph both the orange and green wires from `S1` ARE wired to `Gl+` on the decoder. Both blue wires from `S1` are wired to `Gl-`.

wired, not fixed.

We are now at a stage where we can test this!
You may wish to connect all three cars, but I choose to only connect the car with the Driver figure. Lift the centre car out of the way, mount the power-car on rollers and connect the cable between the power-car and centre-car. - I found there was just enough `slack` to do this with the two cars parallel to each other, but there is very little gap between the two. Double check nothing is touching where it should not!
The connectors on the end of the cars will rotate slightly on their fixings.. If you find the connections are excessively tight, it might be worth checking they are aligned to the centre of the cut-outs in the ends of the cars and bellows.

two cars kludged together..

Connect your Central Station to the track, and switch on track power. Hopefully, you will have lights. If not power-down immediately, and check your track connections. Touch the surface-mount components on the decoder board to see if any are hot.
Assuming all is well, select the default decoder address (three) and slowly increase the speed to see if you have drive. Back to stationary, and you can then play experiment with the functions.

At this point, you should have access to available functions / sounds as follows:

F1  Whistle
F2  Whistle (with echo)
F3  Announcement "Welcome to regional train.."
F4  Announcement "Waiting for connecting train.."
F5  Start-up / shutdown
F6  Sound off / on
F7  - Aux 1, but will change when lights done..
F8  Switching speed, but will change when lights done..
F9  Compressor
F10 Pantograph up
F11 Pantograph down
F12 Ventilation
F13 ? Gruezi in Bernina Express
F14 Vacuum
F15 Curve squeal - not sure if this  is push on then push off, or a slow-speed effect yet..
F16 Switchable delay time (whatever that is!)

Brake effect is `slow-down` dependent.
If the unit is silent, and you move off, the start-up sequence will play followed by speed-dependent motor sound.


MORE LATER..
Camera is eating sets of batteries, though to be fair, they were used for LED lights at Christmas!