Lgb White Pass Alco Locomotive Wheel Slippage

[markrussell1966]

Hi I have just purchased a brand new LGB 25554 White Pass Alco Locomotive. However it struggles to pull more that 3 or 4 double bogie coaches without the wheels slipping? It has one traction tyre on the front bogie unit, which I changed to a brand new Massoth one just to be sure, but it makes no difference. No layout is reasonable flat with no noticeable inclines. Any ideas and are these loco's prone to wheel slippage? With double motors I was expecting it capable of pulling significantly more load then this without wheel slippage? The track is clean as well and I don't run live steam any more. Any ideas anyone?
Thanks,
Mark

 

[Zerogee]

Just an off-the-cuff thought, Mark - if this is one of LGB's new ones, I wonder how the weight compares with the older models of this loco? It's quite possible that they've cut down on the weight, and it may pull better if you were to add some extra to it....?

Jon.

 

[PhilP]

What are you comparing it with?
Do you have anything similar at all?
Are you sure the track formation is almost flat, and what radius curves do you have? - An reverse curves?

Also, if you are used to live steam, and this is a new to you model.. Did you lubricate it at all?
1. I find the newer LGB loco's to have a lot less 'slop' in the mechanics, and they tend to be quite 'dry' as supplied.
2. On live steamers, if in doubt, slop oil on it! You don't need anything like the amount of oil that adorns the average live steamer.. ?Could the wheels be contaminated with oil?

Probably teaching how to suck-eggs here..

 

[beachdonkey]

I had the same problem with my Spreewald which is the current version only a few months old. It was slipping on the curves when only pulling two four wheel coaches. On inspection I found one of the skates was stuck and therefore lifting the wheels very slightly off the track causing lack of traction.It must have left the factory like that so maybe something worth checking.

 

[markrussell1966]

What are you comparing it with?
Do you have anything similar at all?
Are you sure the track formation is almost flat, and what radius curves do you have? - An reverse curves?

Also, if you are used to live steam, and this is a new to you model.. Did you lubricate it at all?
1. I find the newer LGB loco's to have a lot less 'slop' in the mechanics, and they tend to be quite 'dry' as supplied.
2. On live steamers, if in doubt, slop oil on it! You don't need anything like the amount of oil that adorns the average live steamer.. ?Could the wheels be contaminated with oil?

Probably teaching how to suck-eggs here..

Hi I lubricated it out of the box, grease on the gears and drop of oil on the axles. The wheels are clean and do not have any oil on them. The track is also clean. The curves are 8ft diametre but it slips on the straights as well. Other loco's that I have are an LGB Sumpter Valley Mallet, LGB Mikado and an LGB Harz 2-10-2. All of these will pull 12 to 18 double bogies no problem.

 

[kim]

The older Alco's will pull a lot of double bogie wagons/coaches, mine is a heavy piece of kit and like you I operate on 8' diameter. Have never had it apart so can't advise on access for more weight.

 

[PhilP]

Check the skates, as above..
Though it does seem like a weight problem..
Compare the weight of the loco to the Mallet. - They stopped using lead for the weights some time ago, but seem to be using the same moulds?? with the 'new' ?alloy? they are using.

Oh, I doubt it is the problem, but worth a check..
I had one (supposedly new) loco come to me, which 'ran, but didn't move much'.. I found the bogies were mirror images, but the motors were not cross-wired. - Pickups had been done, but not the motors.
Consequently, one bogie went forwards, and one went backwards!

 

[kim]

Just had hold of my Sumpter and the Alco, if anything the Alco feels a little bit heavier and there is only one traction tyre.

 

[itsmcgee]

I had two of them with the same problem. They would not pull near what my old blue ones did. When I opened them up it was clear why. The weight in them is not only light but not balanced. I found some old weights and replaced them in the fuel tanks and now have a green and yellow set that pulls quite well.

 

[markrussell1966]

I had two of them with the same problem. They would not pull near what my old blue ones did. When I opened them up it was clear why. The weight in them is not only light but not balanced. I found some old weights and replaced them in the fuel tanks and now have a green and yellow set that pulls quite well.

Could anyone let me know the weight of the blue ones so that I can compare?

 

[kim]

My green and yellow plus me = 17stone 8lbs
me = 16stone 12lbs
Alco = 10lbs

Accuracy of scales, mmmmmmmm

 

[kim]

And then I looked in the insructions booklet to find the weight is 4000g, 8.8lb

 

[David1226]

My green and yellow plus me = 17stone 8lbs
me = 16stone 12lbs
Alco = 10lbs

Accuracy of scales, mmmmmmmm

On balance... I think scales are out...

David

 

[kim]

Indeed. If there's any justice I will be 12stone.

 

[ntpntpntp]

Presume you've checked the stock is running freely?

 

[David1226]

Indeed. If there's any justice I will be 12stone.

I do not have a weight problem, my problem is my height. For my weight I should be 7'5"....

David

 

[Riograndad]

Hi all,I had /have the same problem with my Alco,15 cars,a dummy loco and caboose was the normal load on R1 curves but after some running time it has problem pulling ITS OWN WEIGHT with no load on level track,tracked it down in my case to traction tyre problem,ANYthing on the railhead seems to be picked up and makes a difference!!!clean track seems to make no difference,problem returns,cannot run on damp or wet rail either,,so i clean the traction tyre and the problem goes away for a while,only loco in the stud that does this,so dont tend to use much which is a shame so watching this post for any ideas,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Neil

 

[stockers]

I would go along with the sticky skates suggestion. Check they move up and down freely - even with a bit or fore and arft pressure (to simulate rail drag).A touch of grease or clean out the slide cavity with a tiny file or screwdriver.

Or return to supplier as not fit for purpose. .

 

[Neil Robinson]

I haven't had much experience of these models.
I suspect the motor blocks are pretty standard and that the skates may be easily removed and replaced if required.
If so I suggest performing the experiment of removing the skates completely and comparing the performance before and after with all other conditons equal. That is to say especially before a shower or other weather changes track condition
I doubt these twin bogie locos need the skates for pickup but they serve a useful purpose in helping to keep the rail clean

 

[AlanL]

I have a couple a LGB Alco's, one blue and one green (not the latest issue). I designated the blue one for pulling my track cleaning train but it suffered from severe lack of pulling power. My cleaning train does have a little more drag than free-running stock, it pulls an LGB track-cleaning block and for severe dirty track, a wet and dry block as well. My usual loco for the the cleaning train was the F7 which it pulled without any problem and had more traction in hand. Both the Alco's struggled with the same cleaning train and could not begin to climb my 2.5% gradient.
The Alco has the same set-up as the F7, 4 drivers and 2 motors so I had to pursue this conumdrum.
First checked the obvious, free-moving skates, lubricated axles and gearbox etc but nothing here.
Now I started thinking outside the box. Could the downward spring pressure on the centre axle, non-driven wheels be causing a problem?
The pivot point for the Alco bogies is not in the centre, it is more towards the front (or back, I can't remember) so the upwards force of the centre axle springs is tending to reduce the loaded weight off one of the driving axles meaning it is only driving on little more than 1 axle per bogie.
I decided to remove the springs for the centre axles. Feeling confident, set the loco on the track-cleaning train but the result was no better if not worse!
Time for a cup of tea and some thought.
Study of the centre axle and it's springs showed that the 'axle locator bearing' was restrained from rotation by the springs. Without the springs the 'axle bearing locator' could rotate and try to push the axle down towards the track similar but worse than the springs. Having got this far, I had nothing to loose but remove the centre axle completly from both bogies and try that.
Much to my relief the loco worked magic, hauling my track cleaning train with ease and plenty of spare traction. With this success I performed the same operation on my other Alco and now have both Alco's with 4 axles. The missing wheels are not too obvious but both locos will now pull the heavy trains with ease.
Give it a try, you will be amazed at the increase in traction. I didn't look at solving the problem of the 'axle locator bearing' rotating. Perhaps someone may have a solution to enable the centre axle to be replaced without causing a lift on the bogie.

Alan