Lithium-ion batteries - some hands-on experience

[whatlep]

Thanks for the info.

Thought of another question...
I would fit the battery into a loco, rather than a trail car, what's the feeling about charging in situ?
If it has to be removed, because of heat or other risk, then it's another ball game.
Of course it the charge lasts several months, then it may be viable.

It's no problem at all. I'm doing exactly that for Coggesrailway in his 2095 conversion. The installation issues are the same as any other battery, but with less risk of overheating as the Li-ion cells chargers I use operate at very low current (typically 350mA) and have auto-shutoff circuits which work extremely efficiently.

I'll writing up Coggesrailway's conversion in a couple of days, but here's a sneak peak of the loco battery being charged today:

 

[MRail]

Thanks guys. Very helpful.

I have a whizzy cranks "diesel" built from a Playmobil cargo loco body on a pair of Essel rod drive trucks.
Also the same mechanics with a mini Fairlie body from pairs of Otto parts etc.
Both these are candidates for more serious batteries.
Only thing is, the motors are rated 12-24V, which is why I asked a while ago about using these batteries in series.
I'm currently using NiMH @ 16.8V.

 

[stockers]

What is the danger?. Are they toxic or likely to combust?
My LiIon drill batteries get fairly hot in use and also whilst charging (fairly fast charger).
I notice Whatleps charger is fairly slow and has an auto cutout when full - sounds a good idea to me.

 

[MRail]

What is the danger?. Are they toxic or likely to combust?

Just with the warnings about overheating, and past tales of self-ignition, I wondered about burning a plastic loco body.

 

[whatlep]

What is the danger?. Are they toxic or likely to combust?

Just with the warnings about overheating, and past tales of self-ignition, I wondered about burning a plastic loco body.

I understand your concern. I read up for quite a while (and consulted with others on GSC) before taking the Li-ion plunge. Li-ion technology has come a long way in the past few years and any decent battery is now fitted with an auto-cutout for both over-temperature and over-voltage. The chargers are also considerably smarter than price might suggest.

The reality is that the Chinese batteries I'm using off eBay are rock solid and considerably cooler than the equivalent NiMH cells when charging. As Stockers wrote, that's down to the very low amperage from the chargers they are supplied with. If you want to worry about overheating, try charging NiMH cells with a "fast charger" such as those often touted for 1 hour recharges of high capacity NiMH cells. Those cells will be too hot to touch at the end of the charge cycle!

Go Li-ion. You won't regret it!

 

[MRail]

Go Li-ion. You won't regret it!

OK - done it! Ordered three from the eBay source.
Now waiting...

 

[Bram]

Thanks guys. Very helpful.

I have a whizzy cranks "diesel" built from a Playmobil cargo loco body on a pair of Essel rod drive trucks.
Also the same mechanics with a mini Fairlie body from pairs of Otto parts etc.
Both these are candidates for more serious batteries.
Only thing is, the motors are rated 12-24V, which is why I asked a while ago about using these batteries in series.
I'm currently using NiMH @ 16.8V.

All my locos are RC battery powered and they run very well on 12v or 14.2v, the Frank S has 2 motors and a 14.2v battery pack - runs for hours

 

[Madman]

A question came to mind. Believe it or not, there is room up there for more than one thought. Anyway, my question has to do with storage of Li-on batteries. The cold months are on their way. Most of my trains are stored in a cabinet behind the garage. It is protected from rain by a substantial roof overhang. But not the cold. Are Li-on batteries affected by very cold temperatures, say down to 10 degrees farenheit. Maybe some day we will see the light over here and convert to the metric system. Not likely any time soon, although Jimmy Carter pushed for it in the seventies. See what I mean? Anyway, back to my original question about cold weather storage of Li-on batteries. When I was a kid, we were told to store dry cells in the refrigerator. Then some time later, it was said to store them in a warm place. Kind of like the coffee debate. It's good for you/it's not good for you. By now you're most likely bored with my ramblings, so I'll stop:holdon:

 

[whatlep]

Are Li-on batteries affected by very cold temperatures, say down to 10 degrees farenheit.

As a user, but not a physicist, I can only refer you to learned papers, such as: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries and http://www.covalentassociates.com/L...tes Designed For a Wide Temperature Range.pdf

When I was a kid, we were told to store dry cells in the refrigerator. Then some time later, it was said to store them in a warm place. Kind of like the coffee debate. It's good for you/it's not good for you. By now you're most likely bored with my ramblings, so I'll stop:holdon:

When I was a kid, the UK government was advising us to drink a pint of milk a day and "go to work on an egg". Red meat was also definitely fine and Guinness beneficial to pregnant women.
I have learned in my brief span on this planet to ignore any health advice promulgated by politicians of any sort and go with what my body tells me. My body tells me it's time for a last brandy before bedtime. Cheers!