Lithium-ion (Li-ion) Batteries - data on shelf-life and discharge rates

MRail said:
Does anyone (maybe Ross) know the likely drain rate?
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See posts 1 & 20 of this thread.
 
Thank you, sir.
I had read these some months ago when first posted.
My cranial retention rate is obviously rather lower that that of the batteries.
 
Can I just sound out others about the blue Li-ion batteries from China. I've bought two of these so far, one with a UK 3-pin charger and the other with a two-pin charger and I've not been able to get either of the chargers to work.

In the end I've had to shell-out £30 for a balanced charger to charge them up. Has anyone else had problems with the chargers which come bundled with these batts or am I just unlucky?

Rik
 
ROSS said:
I have two batts on charge. One with the old style charger with the red and green light glowing when charging and is plugged in via an adapter.
The other is the newer charger that plugs directly into the electrical outlet socket and has a red and green light glowing when charging.
LATE EDIT: When the charger is plugged in and the battery connected WITHOUT THE WALL SOCKET BEING SWITCHED ON..the charger RED light glows - (obviously back powered from the battery)
I find that the old type is a bit "iffy" when plugged into the adapter and have in fact, had one go off with a bang,!!:nail:
I now use the newer charger all the time and retired the old type to the spares "just in case" box.
[style="color: #0000ff;"]I will confirm the light question when the batteries are charged.
[style="color: #0000ff;"]Cannot remember as it was some time ago when I charged them.
[style="color: #0000ff;"] (It's an age thing!) :laugh:

LATEST FOR INFO 15TH/09 @ 1025
OLD STYLE CHARGER. Finished charging (topping up battery). Green light goes out..red light remains on (backpower from battery) whether wall socket switched off or not.

LATEST FOR INFO 15TH/09 @ 1100
NEWEST STYLE CHARGER
Same as the above comments for the OLDER type.

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I've tested the output from the newest charger and it seems OK. The charger connects via a female power lead to one of the leads on the battery. I tried it for 12 hours with the batt switched off (red light only showing on the charger) and there was barely any charge in the battery. Now trying with the battery switch in the on position and I get a red and a green LED on the charger so I assume this now means it's charging - yes?

From the above I assume I now wait until the green LED extinguishes showing the batt is fully charged - if I've interpreted it correctly

Rik
 
Following Whatlep's excellent review, I bought some Li batteries.
I have two of the blue wrapped type 6800MAH, and one in a hard black case, 3800MAH.
The blues came with 3 pin chargers, the black with a 2 pin and adapter.
The blues have a female trailing socket, permanently live, and a male trailing plug, switched.
I leave the plug unused, and have since cut it off and used it in the loco wiring.
The socket feeds via a plug to the loco wiring, switch and charge socket.
Both work well, perhaps a little underpowered for double bogie motors.

The black cased battery has a switch and socket. It also has a 5V USB socket, as yet untried.
I plug the loco wiring into the 12V socket, and remove it and the battery for charging.

I recently bought a larger blue wrapped battery at 9800 MAH, and found both leads are switched.
This means the tiny LED is permanently lit when the loco switch is off.
There was no way to make the switch accessible without cutting a large hole in the body work.
It came with a 2 pin charger and adapter, having asked the seller for a UK 3 pin charger.

Chargers all have two lights. The red is on when plugged into either the battery, or the mains, or both.
The green is on while charging and goes off to indicate full charge.
All are rated at 350Ma.

Not much more to say, except that 12.6V is rather low for double 24V motored locos.
I've recently been absolutely staggered at the price of 21.5V 2100MAH Li Ion packs. eg USAT type.

Correction:- for USAT I meant Aristrocraft.
 
mine is nic cad recharge battery from drill it run for 4 hours limit..without circutat board..just motor and light tht all.....mine charge up for 4-5 hours...then leave it til cool down...then that it............run smooth BUT not very fast..normal speed....
 
I've also done a few of these. 18V NiCd drill battery split down to 12V and fitted in a tender.
Does well with single motors, eg Lehmann Porter saddle tanks.
 
Does anyone know a reasonable maximum current output for these 12v 6800mA batteries? I have a 3 1/2" electric steam outline "Titfield Thunderbolt" which I run occasionally at my Club track using a large leisure battery on the passenger trailer. It takes about 15A pulling a couple of passengers. It would be nice to power it from a couple of these Li-ions hidden in the tender instead, which in theory would give me nearly an hour's run, but do li-ion's lose capacity at high rates of discharge like lead-acid?
 
Thanks Ross. Looks like I am stuck with the leisure battery, but it looks odd as it is bigger than the engine!
Most people are amazed that such a tiny loco (it's only 15" long without the tender) can pull several people.
 
Hi

I have a newbie question related to the black cased version. I used this battery with a time-lapse stage zero system ( I know its not a train :)).

Anyway what I want to understand is when I'm charging this unit, if I turn the black switch on the battery off / on a green light on the charging adaptor plugged into the wall turns on /off. What does that that green light mean?

Rueben
 
ruebenad said:
Hi

I have a newbie question related to the black cased version. I used this battery with a time-lapse stage zero system ( I know its not a train :)).

Anyway what I want to understand is when I'm charging this unit, if I turn the black switch on the battery off / on a green light on the charging adaptor plugged into the wall turns on /off. What does that that green light mean?

Rueben
Click to expand...

Well you could read the battery & charger instructions (!), but.....
the green light indicates whether your battery is fully charged. For the black packs, the battery switch needs to be turned on to permit charging. The awkward bit is that depending on the type of charger you have, the green light may either be out until the battery is fully charged, then come on, or 100% the opposite (on until charged then go out). No, really, I mean it.

If you have lost your charger's instructions, the only way to find out which way your charger works is to switch on the battery pack, connect it to the charger and wait 12 hours. If the green light has gone out then you'll know that it's of the pattern light out = fully charged. If the light is still on and the battery is charged, you'll know it's the other way round and that the battery was fully charged to start with.
 
My blue battery arrived by airmail today... If its ok to send it "airmale" ( jest not, that's how its spelt on the packaging) I am confident it will be safe to charge it inside the steam tram...
Now my charger has a red and a green led on it (BTW I got no instructions) and when I plug it into the battery the red on the charger comes on and the red on the battery comes on irrespective of where the switch is so I will wait to see what happens overnight... Charging at 350mA it would take at least 19 hours to charge a 6.8Ah battery... I will wait with great anticipation to see what happens to the leds........
 
Its been on charge for over 24hrs now with no change in the leds... and there is power at the charge output....
Hang on let me fiddle with it, turn on the switch and the green and red LEDS on the charger light.... so I can assume its now fully charged I guess. I'll measure the voltage when I venture into my garage and get a meter....
Incredible energy density in these things though....
Thank you linesmen, thank you ball boys...
 
Only slightly off topic, I was looking at replacement li-ion camera batteries from a well known online retailer in Guernsey, who advises that there are now UK postal restrictions on these batteries, resulting in the (expensive) use of couriers, and suggesting that it's a good idea to order more than just one item to avoid disproportionate carriage charges. Does this affect the sort of Chinese stuff being discussed here? If not, why not, and what sort of costs are involved? Or are 7day... you know who (if you're a photographer) just trying it on???
 
ROSS said:
Eaglecliff said:
Yep, Maplin £19.99, 7dayshop £6.99...
London Camera Exchange don't show them online.
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Think the 7dayshop is Channel islands and not sent postal service. See original post.
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Having purchased from them and suffered a large surcharge (as their base is in the Channel Islands is not part of the EU regarding Vat, etc.), I now receive emails which say they have a UK warehouse.
 
Post Office regs changed on 15th July.
Batteries are classed as dangerous.
All sorts of sub-groups are listed in their leaflet "Are You Posting Safely?".
eg Ordinary alkaline batteries can only be sent brand new in manufacturers sealed packaging.
I found out when trying to post an RC Tx, and honestly admitted it had batteries fitted - was knocked back.
 
To more less answer my own query, yes, 7day shop can now ship from within the UK; delivery is £5.95, so they are still cheaper than Maplins even for one battery (for my Olympus DSLRs) - but since the UN (that's how I read it) have seemingly declared Li-ion batteries nearly as dangerous as nuclear waste, that still leaves unanswered my question as to how they are getting here (legally) from China, Hong Kong or wherever??? (Presumably by sea, then couriered from within the UK?)
 
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