Massoth eMotion S problems
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
Look for phone number at:
www.rctrains.co.uk
If you would rather use a landline, replace the first 5 digits with:
01827
Phil.
RC Trains contacts
RC Trains contacts. For further information about RC Trains products and services. RC Trains provides radio control equipment for garden railways, model railways and model trains.
If you would rather use a landline, replace the first 5 digits with:
01827
Phil.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Phil, what is your hourly rate? Do you do international calls?
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
Phil, what is your hourly rate? Do you do international calls?
'Loadsa Money' and 'You call me..'
It is annoying.. I had-at one of these in 2016, but my notes from then are gone.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Well, the suspense is killing me....
for all of us without esp / clairvoyance can you tell use what the "other" decoder is.... the only description is "my rail bus"
clearly the challenge is to move it's functions to other function buttons.
I normally reserve F8 for sound/mute, and of course do not remap F0, F1, F2....
Greg
for all of us without esp / clairvoyance can you tell use what the "other" decoder is.... the only description is "my rail bus"
clearly the challenge is to move it's functions to other function buttons.
I normally reserve F8 for sound/mute, and of course do not remap F0, F1, F2....
Greg
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
The one I 'dealt with' (in 2016) had a smoked decoder, so it was replaced with 'something else'..
I will get 'hands-on' the railbus, later today.. Patience Grasshopper!
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
Right....
This is not a pretty sight. - Some problems due to the installation of the S decoder, and some due to manufacturing..
The decoder circuit board sits in the bottom of the chassis, with the motor on top. The motor drives the wheels via shafts with a crude universal joint to allow the axles to 'steer'. One axle has skates, as well as wheel pickup.
The ends of the axle units bear on a flat-strip spring, to aid self-centering. these strips sit below the circuit board, and if they come out of their slots, can short under the board.
There are three 5-wire cables connected to the board:
One to each end of the model - white/red bulbs, plus a pair of wires for the universal sockets.
One which goes up to the roof-lights - three bulbs for internal lighting, and one at each end for cab/high-level front-light.
Although this decoder is built (for LGB) by Massoth, it follows the Large Onboard Decoder for CV functions, and NOT Massoth CV functions.
The wiring, to either end, runs in a channel in the chassis, and is quite tight. The wiring to the internal lights, is fed up into the body of the vehicle. There is a metal plate, as part of the construction, and it is easy to trap the wires between the plastic chassis and the metal plate.
The S decoder, speaker, and volume control have been mounted within the body of the vehicle. The volume control is accessible through the door, at the front of the vehicle.
Track power for the S decoder has been tapped off one-set of connectors to the axle-units.
By default, the model uses F1 to control the internal lights. - This clashes with the horn control of the S decoder.
The internal lights are on Aux.2 mapped with CV57 (originally '2') this was changed to '8' to give control with the F8 key. - usually used for 'Shunting (half) Speed. Not really applicable to a Railbus!
Directional lighting had 'stopped working', and initially I had tried to diagnose and fix this remotely. Not knowing the decoder model, did not help, so Clive dropped the model over to me..
Changing the configuration gave 'strange' results, and I initially thought a bulb had failed. - Red/white lower level lights are provided with red/white bulbs, and 'light-pipe' to split between the two outlets.
Bulbs were tested, and found to be OK, so it was time to tear the unit down:
I could not lift the board away from the chassis. This was due to the lead to the internal lights being trapped. - See above note.
The quality of construction/soldering of the leads for remote lights is not good:
One wire to the internal lights has broken away from the circuit board.
The lead to the front of the model has been trapped against the edge of the circuit board. - It appears this has 'popped' one of the driver transistors, meaning the front lights misbehave.
The track-power leads to the S decoder, have also been trapped. - The white wire having had it's insulation compromised for a few millimetres. This might have been the cause of the output transistor letting go?
I will need to strip the unit down, in order to free the trapped wiring. Make-good the broken connections, test to confirm there is a board problem, and then ascertain the cost of a repair from Massoth.
Picture in next post:
This is not a pretty sight. - Some problems due to the installation of the S decoder, and some due to manufacturing..
The decoder circuit board sits in the bottom of the chassis, with the motor on top. The motor drives the wheels via shafts with a crude universal joint to allow the axles to 'steer'. One axle has skates, as well as wheel pickup.
The ends of the axle units bear on a flat-strip spring, to aid self-centering. these strips sit below the circuit board, and if they come out of their slots, can short under the board.
There are three 5-wire cables connected to the board:
One to each end of the model - white/red bulbs, plus a pair of wires for the universal sockets.
One which goes up to the roof-lights - three bulbs for internal lighting, and one at each end for cab/high-level front-light.
Although this decoder is built (for LGB) by Massoth, it follows the Large Onboard Decoder for CV functions, and NOT Massoth CV functions.
The wiring, to either end, runs in a channel in the chassis, and is quite tight. The wiring to the internal lights, is fed up into the body of the vehicle. There is a metal plate, as part of the construction, and it is easy to trap the wires between the plastic chassis and the metal plate.
The S decoder, speaker, and volume control have been mounted within the body of the vehicle. The volume control is accessible through the door, at the front of the vehicle.
Track power for the S decoder has been tapped off one-set of connectors to the axle-units.
By default, the model uses F1 to control the internal lights. - This clashes with the horn control of the S decoder.
The internal lights are on Aux.2 mapped with CV57 (originally '2') this was changed to '8' to give control with the F8 key. - usually used for 'Shunting (half) Speed. Not really applicable to a Railbus!
Directional lighting had 'stopped working', and initially I had tried to diagnose and fix this remotely. Not knowing the decoder model, did not help, so Clive dropped the model over to me..
Changing the configuration gave 'strange' results, and I initially thought a bulb had failed. - Red/white lower level lights are provided with red/white bulbs, and 'light-pipe' to split between the two outlets.
Bulbs were tested, and found to be OK, so it was time to tear the unit down:
I could not lift the board away from the chassis. This was due to the lead to the internal lights being trapped. - See above note.
The quality of construction/soldering of the leads for remote lights is not good:
One wire to the internal lights has broken away from the circuit board.
The lead to the front of the model has been trapped against the edge of the circuit board. - It appears this has 'popped' one of the driver transistors, meaning the front lights misbehave.
The track-power leads to the S decoder, have also been trapped. - The white wire having had it's insulation compromised for a few millimetres. This might have been the cause of the output transistor letting go?
I will need to strip the unit down, in order to free the trapped wiring. Make-good the broken connections, test to confirm there is a board problem, and then ascertain the cost of a repair from Massoth.
Picture in next post:
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Wow!
Clive you are a lucky guy!
Clearly Phil has orders of magnitude more patience than me!
Greg
Clive you are a lucky guy!
Clearly Phil has orders of magnitude more patience than me!
Greg
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
The patience was getting the bl**dy doors to stay-put, after converting it to a kit of parts to get the wiring out of intimate contact with bits of chassis.. 
I have packed it away for the weekend.. - Must do some other jobs..
But........................ A plan is forming.. There are function outputs on the S decoder, so by 'over-plugging round the back' (as we used to say, in BBC circles) I should be able to replicate the functionality.
All-be-it with some 'creative macrami' in the wiring department! 
(I'll let you know, how I get on..)
I have packed it away for the weekend.. - Must do some other jobs..
But........................ A plan is forming.. There are function outputs on the S decoder, so by 'over-plugging round the back' (as we used to say, in BBC circles) I should be able to replicate the functionality.
All-be-it with some 'creative macrami' in the wiring department! (I'll let you know, how I get on..)
Greg Elmassian
Guest
A number of posts ago, my first thought was to dump the existing function only decoder and use the lighting outputs from the new decoder, but since it was still unfolding I figured you were in enough pain already.
Can es see a picture of this thing since the model has only been described as a rail bus.
Thanks, Greg
Can es see a picture of this thing since the model has only been described as a rail bus.
Thanks, Greg
idlemarvel
Neither idle nor a marvel
That circuit board with a hole in the middle (fits around the motor block) tells me it is either an LGB "Wismar" 2 axle rail bus 2x66x ("pignose") or the flat nose 2x65x.
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
Railbus number is LGB 29655
DR Class VT 133 Powered Rail Car and Control Car | Märklin
DR Class VT 133 powered rail car with a control car in Era III lettering. This unit has an absolutely authentic paint scheme and lettering. All of the door
www.lgb.com
The Massoth 'S' decoder is a sound decoder.. No motor, or light functions, per-se.. But it does have some function outputs. - 50mA max. per output, so will have to be a little careful, or start replacing bulbs with LED's..
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Sorry, did not remember the S is function only... thanks for the post of the car, looking at the exploded diagram, I can see how it's packed tightly!
Greg
Greg
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
As with all 'electronics' these days.. The cabling is a work of art!
If your ribbon cable is too long, or too heavy a gauge, it can be a nightmare to get it to sit nicely.. - Once you start 'messing', it can get really fiddly to make everything sit nicely, and allow you to get the the item back together.
The ribbon to the internal lights, is q little tight (for easy connection.. I might alter this, adding a few millimetres extra length, as this is one of the sets of connections I will need to tap into.
If your ribbon cable is too long, or too heavy a gauge, it can be a nightmare to get it to sit nicely.. - Once you start 'messing', it can get really fiddly to make everything sit nicely, and allow you to get the the item back together.
The ribbon to the internal lights, is q little tight (for easy connection.. I might alter this, adding a few millimetres extra length, as this is one of the sets of connections I will need to tap into.
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
The saga continues..
I have since found out there were some 'problems' when Clive purchased the model, and that someone-else had had a go at things..
Went back to the beginning of the thread, to confirm Central Station, so set everything to 14 speed-steps, normal running direction, front and rear lights to default, and checked ALL dividers for light and function outputs set correctly..
This gave me motion in opposite direction to directional lighting (with no white front-lights, as that O/P seems to have 'popped'). However, the cab-lights were right for the direction of travel!
A bit of head-scratching later, and turned the motor over.. Directional red/white lights, and direction of travel now match, but cab lights are wrong. - But no front white headlights, obviously..
The cable to the internal light-board, is really tight, and this may have been messed with to try to get things going?
I have decided to strip down to the board (again!) and extend these connections slightly.. If I also swap the two cab-light wires, all directional lighting should then match direction of travel?
I have extended the wiring for the white front head-lights (two 'lights', but luckily one bulb and light-pipes) and can configure 'A3' on the S-decoder to drive this. - Lucky, as it is a single bulb (5V 33mA) and the A3 output is rated to 50mA, so will only drive one bulb!
I have tacked track-power feeds to the original board, to feed into the passenger compartment for the S-decoder. - I will put a connector in series, so the S-decoder can be disconnected, and supply a lead to allow it to be powered externally for any programming changes. Crude, but effective!
Back to the soldering iron...
I have since found out there were some 'problems' when Clive purchased the model, and that someone-else had had a go at things..
Went back to the beginning of the thread, to confirm Central Station, so set everything to 14 speed-steps, normal running direction, front and rear lights to default, and checked ALL dividers for light and function outputs set correctly..
This gave me motion in opposite direction to directional lighting (with no white front-lights, as that O/P seems to have 'popped'). However, the cab-lights were right for the direction of travel!
A bit of head-scratching later, and turned the motor over.. Directional red/white lights, and direction of travel now match, but cab lights are wrong.
- But no front white headlights, obviously..The cable to the internal light-board, is really tight, and this may have been messed with to try to get things going?
I have decided to strip down to the board (again!) and extend these connections slightly.. If I also swap the two cab-light wires, all directional lighting should then match direction of travel?
I have extended the wiring for the white front head-lights (two 'lights', but luckily one bulb and light-pipes) and can configure 'A3' on the S-decoder to drive this. - Lucky, as it is a single bulb (5V 33mA) and the A3 output is rated to 50mA, so will only drive one bulb!
I have tacked track-power feeds to the original board, to feed into the passenger compartment for the S-decoder. - I will put a connector in series, so the S-decoder can be disconnected, and supply a lead to allow it to be powered externally for any programming changes. Crude, but effective!
Back to the soldering iron...